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Thread: Which JBL S4700 / 4367?

  1. #1
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    Which JBL S4700 / 4367?

    Hi! I am scouting for new speakers. I am new to the JBL-world (although my old man isn't and here I am…). I have listened to the relatively new JBL L100 Classic, both the 75-year edition and the "normal" one. I was intrigued by the dynamic JBL sound but found them too "boxy"-sounding/less detailed for my taste. And I am also willing to pay a bit more if needed. I thought JBLs weren't really for me at all. That was until I by accident listened to a pair of S9900 K2's at my local hifi dealer. Best sounding speaker I've ever heard. Also most expensive one I ever heard. Way out of my budget.

    Now my problem is this: how can I get _some_ of that K2 magic (to my ears: lots of details, complete lack of confined/boxy-sound, great stereo image, great dynamics) for less money. From the JBL website and price-lists, it seems that the S4700 and the 4367 are the next-level down from the K2 (?). But in my area (Copenhagen, Denmark) those aren't readily available for demo at the moment "unless for serious buyers". I am serious but it annoys me that I can't get a completely no-questions-asked demo. I have read through this and other forums about the S4700 and the 4367, and I have of course asked local hifi-dealers. It seems that the S4700 would give me some/much of the K2-magic quite a bit cheaper. There is currently a 25% discount on a few sets of new S4700 at one of my hifi dealers. The price of the 4367 is about the same as the discounted S4700.

    I have some concerns:
    1) the S4700 is old (maybe not by JBL standards?) – are we expecting a new one soon?
    2) the 4367 is a "studio monitor" like the L100. Am I "just" getting more of the L100 classic-sound that I didn't fancy too much?
    3) few would argue against the K2 being better than most other speakers, but are there also some obvious sound-differences between the S4700/4367 that I should know about. Maybe this can help me to only audition one of the two (?)

    I am aware that it's only my own ears who can judge this, but I thought maybe someone here could help me along a bit.

    Any input is greatly appreciated,
    Mads

  2. #2
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I can't offer any advice because where I live there is nowhere to audition any JBL either. Seems to be a world-wide problem due to the demise of brick-and-mortar stores and the takeover of JBL/Harman turning the name JBL (like Altec) into a label for Bluetooth personal speakers.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    This thread can give you some idea however nothing beats your own comparison! Good luck hope you get a chance to actually hear them. I have the same issue there is one place I can go to a Harmon Store but I don't think they have the high end gear there.

    Rob

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...00-vs-JBL-4367
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerfrog View Post
    Hi! I am scouting for new speakers. I am new to the JBL-world...

    I have some concerns:
    1) the S4700 is old (maybe not by JBL standards?) – are we expecting a new one soon?
    2) the 4367 is a "studio monitor" like the L100. Am I "just" getting more of the L100 classic-sound that I didn't fancy too much?
    3) few would argue against the K2 being better than most other speakers, but are there also some obvious sound-differences between the S4700/4367 that I should know about. Maybe this can help me to only audition one of the two (?)

    I am aware that it's only my own ears who can judge this, but I thought maybe someone here could help me along a bit.

    Any input is greatly appreciated,
    First, I would be very hesitant about buying any new JBL and most older ones since JBL/Harman has proven that it cares little about their customers. Twenty years ago JBL continually produced repair parts for their products and you could repair almost any speaker they had ever produced. Today, only a few years after production ceases, you are on your own and you have to source parts from scavenged speakers or find other creative means.

    Second, in general there is little difference between "studio monitors" and other speakers. For the most part it is only marketing.

    The K2-S9900 is a fine speaker. I was fortunate enough to babysit a pair for a time and agree that they are very fine indeed. I also owned their bigger brother the DD66000 for a number of years... I preferred it, but at this level I do not believe any speaker is "better" than another. They are simply different.

    Since JBL Professional is dealing with professionals they appear to have a little better track record of warranty and out of warranty customer care. You might try to audition the JBL M2. It is a true studio monitor and is another fine speaker. The 4367 is based on this speaker.

    Good Luck!


    Widget

  5. #5
    Senior Member christo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerfrog View Post
    But in my area (Copenhagen, Denmark) those aren't readily available for demo at the moment "unless for serious buyers". I am serious but it annoys me that I can't get a completely no-questions-asked demo.
    I ran in to this BS when I was looking to buy K2s not with a dealer but with Harman. I had been drooling over the E2s but due to size/weight and cost were beyond my budget, for some reason in Canada the price gap between the K2/E2 was near 20K at the time. I had been browsing a stereo magazine and saw an advertisement for the new JBL K2s. Wow only one woofer and looked to be smaller than the E2s. I phoned the number in the ad looking to find a dealer. A few days later an America sales rep. got back to me we had a pleasant conversation and he gave me a contact number in Canada. Phoned that number, left a message and a few days later a sales rep. contacted me, not the original contact I had been given.

    Then BS started, the sales rep. insinuated that I could not afford these, it would be a privilege if I were allowed to audition and possibly even purchase them, was not going to give me the name of a dealer… It was the strangest conversation I have ever had with a sales rep. Halfway through the conversation I thought what do I have to do, show this guy my tax return, get references, somehow show my audiophile pedigree, whatever the h3ll that maybe, in the end he relented.

    The dealer went out of his way to allow me to audition the K2s at my leisure, with whatever combination of gear that was in his shop.

    My point being is don’t put up with this type of attitude, be more assertive to get the demo. You can’t be expected invest this type of money without an audition, besides exactly how many of these speakers do they move...

    I’d sure like to know how they define a serious buyer besides “doesn’t look like an anarchist”. I’ve learned over the years and especially in this day and age if you “judge a book by it’s cover” it’s at your own peril.

  6. #6
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    I chose the 4367 over the S4700 for several reasons.

    I wanted a 2-way speaker not a 3-way
    The 4367 is based on the highly respected M2, but consumerized with a crossover, an improved woofer, and prettier cabinets.
    Last, the S4700 is rear-ported, the 4367 is front-ported like its M2 cousin. Being designed for monitor duty it is designed to work well in less than optimum locations including close to a back wall, the rear-ported S4700 will require more careful placement and likely more distance from the back wall.

    It is a very smooth speaker, very accurate, I have absolutely no complaints about its performance.
    - Jeff

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    I would look at the reviews and investigate which design will best work in your room.

    The compression driver in the 4367 is different and a departure from JBLs more contemporary take on compression drivers.

    The 4700 is a taller more slender design while the 4367 is low boy. Both work best in large rooms 5m x 5 m or larger. You are likely to find placement of the 4700 easier and more forgiving of less than pristine electronics and recordings both vinyl and digital.

    They tried to lower the free air resonance in the woofer variant used in the 4367 but l am told the additional acquaplas did not make as big difference as expected. That’s from the designer.

    Ultimately it’s which system will give you the most satisfaction. Price is not necessarily the final arbiter. It’s more about your your prior hifi experiences and the way systems work in your room.

    https://www.stereonet.com/au/reviews...speaker-review

    One option is to look at the more compact large bookshelf sized designs and team it with a high quality sub or a pair of subs that can be dialled in to suit particular listening room conditions. The JBL 4429 comes to mind.

    Alternatively pair it with a Dirac enabled HT receiver like some of the Nad or Acram models and download the full Dirac. Dirac will do a good job of cleaning up the lower end.
    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 02-05-2022 at 12:30 AM. Reason: Updated

  8. #8
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    I think the current products are fine. But JBL has become a faceless brand that is about franchising the brand into the lifestyle and the automotive industries.

    None of the products are unique from the ground up. They are simply scaled versions of a top model.

    The legendary Hifi status that drew on expertise from key engineering staff in product profiles is long gone. That is one of the reasons JBL was do respected in Japan. They are now instead franchising key patents and scaling those technologies across product ranges. The M2 horn is an example of this.

    The guy they hired to do the franchise marketing has also moved on. You can just imagine them looking at the spreadsheets every week and nothing else because they don’t understand the business.
    They just acquire technologies and franchise them under the JBL branch.

    The synthesis receivers and processors borrow from the recently acquired Acram HiFi brand. Same thing. The brand has lost its soul.

    For a while they were hiring people like Charles Sprinkle as interns. Sprinkle worked in a number of roles in JBL Consumer and JBL Pro for 14 years. A very capable engineer.

    Sprinkle now works as director of acoustics for a small monitor business Kali.

    Obviously the writing was on the wall for him too.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Seems like Chris Hagen was brought back shortly after Greg was dismissed. Chris, having gained our respect here with the L7/L5 line in the '90s, is credited with the L100 Classics in articles I've read. Is he still there?
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Chris's name is on the 4367 White Paper as Author, but I understand that Greg Timbers had much to do with the M2 and 4367, its horn and changes to the 2216ND-1, and definitely the crossover networks (this is from a JBL Engineer). The fact that he and JBL parted before the 4367 made it to market likely has some impact but Chris wouldn't have degraded the design as he too is quite talented and from what I have read in the past has respect for Greg's designs.

    JBL does make some excellent speakers, I'm sorry that there is some anger toward its management, but there is still excellent DNA especially in designs that were born before some of the changes mentioned below. Further, there are different design teams and different directives for different products.

    JBL Pro speakers / Synthesis speakers aren't typically sharing the same Designers as bluetooth headsets, ... nor do the same budgets and timelines come out of design meetings.

    If the subject here is still S4700 vs 4367 and not whether JBL has made some changes with which we don't agree RE: investments and personnel, then I still feel that the 4367 is an excellent and honest speaker system, albeit without any snazzy styling. It is also excellent for easy placement in a room. Being that it is designed to work with reflections in a room (which is typical for modern JBL monitors as they're designed to be placed in rooms with other equipment), the off-axis response is (to a degree) well controlled and sounds as natural, which is also very important to those of us not interested in having to build a space around the needs of the speakers. They are very forgiving.

    This is from an owner, one who has auditioned both models at a dealer and made a choice based on that audition. I also have lived with the 4367 in my own home and have found nothing that surprises me, they work well.

    Rant on about JBL Management folks, sorry to be on-subject here.
    - Jeff

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturationPt View Post
    JBL Rant on about JBL Management folks, sorry to be on-subject here.
    I hope my comments above are not taken as simply a rant against Harman's management. As someone who makes his living recommending, selling, and supporting this equipment, I can't with good conscience recommend any product that is not supported by its manufacturer for a reasonable time.

    Support may seem like a nicety on the front end, but would you buy a car that couldn't be properly repaired? Most computers and digital audio electronics have a rather short service life which is understood by the consumer. Loudspeakers on the other hand have not historically fallen into this basket. Many loudspeakers that were built 100 years ago are still functioning as intended.

    All 8 of the drivers in my main 2 channel DIY system (JBL and TAD) are no longer repairable and are pretty rare. If any one fails due to operator error, the rest of the components will become spare parts and I will be pretty bummed. Had I bought the speakers as a manufactured system and paid the $30-$50K they likely would have cost, I wouldn't just be bummed, I'd be really angry.

    Back on topic, many of the high end speakers that JBL has designed over the last 15-20 years have been remarkably good. I am not sure the current Radian drivers used in the K2-S9900 and DD67000 are as good as the original JBL designed and built compression drivers they have replaced, and I have no idea what other cost cutting measures JBL has resorted to in other systems, but the designs are quite solid.

    Back OT, choosing between the S4700 and 4367? I would probably pick the 4367. If I was going this route, I would likely buy a pair of M2s and dress them up to make them visually more appealing.


    Widget

  12. #12
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    I agree Widget, as an owner of some vintage JBLs, I have had many through my hands and have had to deal with obsolescence. I have hoarded many cone and diaphragm kits.

    As an example, the L300As that left my home this afternoon (I know, should have kept them) have woofers that have current cone-kits available, I bought a set of C8R2235s just last summer. Even though those are now made in Mexico, it's amazing to me that they haven't made the 2235H in decades, but still support them. OTOH, getting diaphragms for the 077/2405? Not as lucky, nor the mid-horn diaphragms, aftermarket only.

    A car is similar, once a car leaves production status, the automakers (US brands anyway) no longer require the same quality for service parts, and only provide service parts at all for a limited number of years.

    This does drive me to hoard parts for some of my gear that I intend to keep for more than a decade, and so it goes.

    JBL Pro OTOH, does provide service parts. However, most large JBL Pro dealers (my brother has been one for decades) typically replace entire drivers and don't get much call to repair, and their customers (large customers) will typically remodel and replace entire audio & video systems every several years and don't care if there are service parts beyond maybe 5-10 years (max). JBL (and Yamaha, he's also a Yamaha dealer) doesn't make money supporting legacy parts for these and would probably prefer to see older equipment (lets take for example a 4335) go into dumpsters so that they are replaced by new, even if the old are still excellent in their own right. Try getting parts for even a TOTL flat-screen TV ten years old, or OE parts for a 2000 GM anything. It's just business. Sucks for us, but I do understand as it costs money to maintain a stock (or production facilities) for old parts. They won't sell enough to justify the cost.

    I know I'm not typing anything that you don't already know, and we just need to vent sometimes.

    Regarding the M2 use in a home? I did consider going that route, I could have bought at dealer cost and saved some money It eventually just became too much hassle to need to biamp and deal with figuring out how JBL had shaped the crossovers to use something other than the Crown amps, I didn't want Crown again. They likely would have worked just fine but having a built-in crossover (crossovers really) so that I can choose to run with a single full-range amp is an advantage that appeals to me.

    The 2216ND-1 seemed like an improvement also FWIW. Maybe I should have tried the M2s first, but that ship has sailed as they say.
    - Jeff

  13. #13
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Interesting summary made in post 12. Memory tells me i seem to have read somewhere that car manufacturers make parts available for 10 years after a model is discontinued? I could be wrong though...


    RE I can't with good conscience recommend any product that is not supported by its manufacturer for a reasonable time.

    The people i deal with used to have JBL tattooed on their heart, but in more recent years not as much, they've been using many more Meyer Sound and L-Acoustics (Europe) speakers. They're still authorized JBL sales & service center but its not for sure the type of domination it enjoyed for years. Have no clue if Meyer Sound for example does continue to support their older products.


    Art Pro Audio is an example of the let down going on, in case people need repair parts.
    Absolutely has to work? Well, look at the fine print highlighted on the next pic.

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    They're pretty much telling users ahead of time they'll be let down sooner than later as i understand. That's the world we live in, "throw away gear". Never bought any of their stuff and don't plan to since i purchase for the long run. If they don't intend to support users from the time a product is discontinued for example, i'd rather look elsewhere then. However some others may do it without telling? Tough luck for parts!

    Richard

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    In the case of the larger consumer loudspeaker systems made within 15 years the woofers l image the warranty under a driver failure due to manufacture defects would be comparatively low. I failure due to user miss use would be the main reason for holding production over runs as spares. If someone blows up a woofer in the $15,000 system they might wait a long time for a replacement driver. I don’t think JBL are obligated to replace anything through miss use or abuse.

    Most if not all the consumer woofers are not of the older type of foam that decomposed over time. This was the main reason for recone kits of paper cone drivers.

    That leaves us die hard (sorry) JBL fans as a minority but sensitive user group who are dependent on recone kits of one type or another.

    On the car thing my 2015 Nissan Patrol Y62 is six going on seven years old. It is a series 2 with 100,000 km on it. They call it an Amarda or something in the USA. They are now making the series 5 which is almost identical mechanically. So l think l am okay on spares for the moment. But l have been told if l break it over on Fraser lsland driving up the beach it will be expensive!

    Launching a 3 tonne vehicle into the air is not that difficult on a beach with a 400 HP V8 racing engine under the bonnet. It will cruise at 100 according to the cops. The problem is the unforeseen fresh water ruts which are like concrete and can be over twelve inch deep. Many 4x4’s have flipped after hitting an unsuspecting rut going too fast to stop. Under warranty? No. The tow is about $2,500 off the island.

    https://fraser-tours.com/article/fra...sked-questions

    https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/__data/...island-map.pdf

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    Thank you all for some interesting feedback and background. I am impressed by the many replies. Everything from recommending me not to buy JBL at all, to specific recommendations in favor of the 4367.

    No-one really warm heartedly encourages the S4700 or any other new non-"studiomonitor"-JBL (apart from Everest/K2…well...), which is sad because I had hoped the S4700 would be the mini-K2 JBL(-marketing) seems to position it at.

    I will do some extra effort to get a listen to the S4700 and 4367. If there is anyone else who have more specific S4700 info, I would be happy to hear.

    Cheers and thanks again
    Mads

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