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Thread: Musically subwoofer?

  1. #31
    Senior Member berga12's Avatar
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    Dear Dr.Db, I never Listen into home application with W15GTo subwoofer, but looking at the parameters I feel that it's not the right component for your application, maybe more suitable for home theater application, where distorsion is less important than SPL, and you don't care too much about timbric parameters.


    you have to consider that you have a very quick and super clean 3 way system.

    And what about Multiple 8" or 10" in a sealed enclosure? could be a possibility.

  2. #32
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    Allright, so the W15gti isnīt really musically when compared with the pro JBL drivers.

    Does the Aurasound NS18 sound any better?
    It has a very high moving mass as well...

    8" or 10" drivers propably need tons of equing to rise the lows, as they start to roll of at about 50hz I guess.... Wouldnīt like that...

  3. #33
    Senior Member berga12's Avatar
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    8"or10" can go down to 20-30hz but due to poor efficiency maybe you need 4-6 of them.

    And you need expensive audiophile subwoofer....

    you spend less with a single 15 or 18".

    if you have aurasound ns18 give him a try!

  4. #34
    Senior Member baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.db View Post
    Allright, so the W15gti isnīt really musically when compared with the pro JBL drivers.

    Does the Aurasound NS18 sound any better?
    It has a very high moving mass as well...

    8" or 10" drivers propably need tons of equing to rise the lows, as they start to roll of at about 50hz I guess.... Wouldnīt like that...
    It's not that easy, many users think the W15GTI is great both for Music and home theather use! Some maybe not, but many do

    But I would still buy Aurasound NS18, it's a fantastic driver... I've had a pair of NS15 and did prefer it over both 2245, 2242 and others. The only reason why I didn't buy them now when I bought wew sub was that I wanted to try the 2269h. Aurasound NS18 was used in i.e. Magico Qsub, the $36.000 sub!!!

  5. #35
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    What are you looking for?

    A "musically"(1) "sounding"(2) subwoofer(3):

    (1) It should not "sound", it should not add to the pure signal.
    (2) What is "musically"?
    (3) Cutoff frequency, box volume and efficiency are related with each other in such a way, that a gain in one respect results in a loss in the other dimension(s).

    If the cutoff frequency is lower than required you give away efficiency and build a box which is larger than required.

    My suggestion is to start with a proper Thiele design and to possibly fine-tune that.

    Ruediger

  6. #36
    Senior Member Kalle's Avatar
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    How about the BMS 18N862? 19mm X-max pro driver. It works in small sealed cabinets (150l) Cheaper for us that lives in europe to. A person I spoke to that uses this driver claims that it goes deep without losing its dynamics and snap like generally heavy cone drivers do. Some info: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=51

    Regards
    Karl

  7. #37
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    Excellent Subwoofer! f3 = 25 Hz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalle View Post
    How about the BMS 18N862? 19mm X-max pro driver. It works in small sealed cabinets (150l) Cheaper for us that lives in europe to. A person I spoke to that uses this driver claims that it goes deep without losing its dynamics and snap like generally heavy cone drivers do. Some info: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=51

    Regards
    Karl
    The TS Params from the manufacturers site are different (and better). Qts = 0.34, fs = 25.1 Hz, Vas = 312 liter.

    Thiele alignment #5 is a B4, f3 = fs, Vb = Vas / 1.414. This results in f3 = 25.1 Hz, Vb = 221 liter.

    Alignment #17 is a C6. It results in F3 = 17.5 Hz, Vb = 172 liter. Too much effort (active filtering) for an effect you don't hear or feel (no such signals on CDs).

    Your speaker cables and amplifiers output resistance become part of the circuit. See formula 70 in the Thiele papers. This allows you to adjust Qt.

    Ruediger

  8. #38
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    Iīm still wondering which driver to buy...

    Either two jbl w15gti or one Aurasound NS18.
    Which one does sound better with music ?

    The enclosure will be 6,5 cubic ft total.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Simple. Get both and report.

  10. #40
    Junior Member music2u's Avatar
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    Hi! I have seen the thread about your build: Wow.. thumbs up!

    I have not auditioned the drivers you consider (and I would not trade my 2245 for any of them) but maybe some general considerations: Two drivers offer some flexibility:

    • you could run them in a stereo mode in two enclosures if you want
    • bass is in most cases the result of woofer and room modes. Two drivers may give you more flexibility with your room acoustic
    • you could build one subwoofer "impuls-compensated" to reduce enclosure vibrations

    Having said that, the "Seismic" from Quint Audio (German Aurasound Distributor) is said to be a "beast"...

    Stefan

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Simple. Get both and report.
    They are both not available here in germany, so I have to import them from the USA.
    This will cost a lot of shipping feeīs and taxes, so I canīt buy both to try...


    Quote Originally Posted by music2u View Post
    Hi! I have seen the thread about your build: Wow.. thumbs up!
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by music2u View Post
    I have not auditioned the drivers you consider (and I would not trade my 2245 for any of them) but maybe some general considerations: Two drivers offer some flexibility:

    • you could run them in a stereo mode in two enclosures if you want
    • bass is in most cases the result of woofer and room modes. Two drivers may give you more flexibility with your room acoustic
    • you could build one subwoofer "impuls-compensated" to reduce enclosure vibrations

    Having said that, the "Seismic" from Quint Audio (German Aurasound Distributor) is said to be a "beast"...

    Stefan
    Iīm aware of the advantage of two subwoofers, but I only have place for one enclosure.
    Have you compared an impuls-compensated sub with a "usual" one ?
    Is it just an advantage in theory or can one really hear a difference?

  12. #42
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    Could somebody please enlighten me ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.db View Post
    <snip>
    Have you compared an impuls-compensated sub with a "usual" one ?
    Is it just an advantage in theory or can one really hear a difference?
    <snip>
    ... what an impulse-compensated loudspeaker is? Is there a reference ?

    Ruediger

  13. #43
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    Aura Sound quick check

    I did a quick check of the Aura Sound NS18 992 4A.

    Thiele alignment #7 is a good fit. You end up with a box 441 liters large and with an f3 of 14.6 Hz.

    The parameters box volume, f3 and efficiency are coupled with each other, so that if you gain something in one respect you loose something in another respect.

    The efficiency of the driver is 86 dB, which is poor. The 14.6 Hz are useless, you pay for that waste with a large cabinet and poor efficiency.

    The 14.6 Hz are useless because there is nothing on a CD below 20 Hz.

    Ruediger

  14. #44
    Junior Member music2u's Avatar
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    Hmm, I thought they are available here in Germany: http://quint-store.com/index.php?page=product&info=235

    Impuls compensation is said to reduce the amount of energy that is lost in enclosure vibrations and therefore improve precision, because the impulses of the speakers cancel each other (sorry, I found only a German schematic):

    Name:  impuls compensation.jpg
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    Elac uses that for their subwoofers and it is also used in the KEF Blade speakers. I have buildt open baffle subwoofers ("Ripole"). They are very close to the Linkwitz design. They are impuls compensated. But as they are open baffle, they do sound completely different. I belive that it works and measurements have been published in one of our German DIY magazines. But.....

    Can you hear it? I don't know but I assume, that room resonances are much more important. That's why I currently build a DBA to compensate for the two 2245.

    @dr db: My very personal opinion: The 2245 are the best I have heard and nicely fit into your concept. The enclosure and port tuning is documented here in the library. Try to get one, build a test enclosure. If you don't like it, you can always resell it with a very limited risk of loosing any money... Belive me: You won't...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by music2u View Post
    Hmm, I thought they are available here in Germany: http://quint-store.com/index.php?page=product&info=235
    Currently sold out, but will be in stock in summer again...


    Quote Originally Posted by music2u View Post
    @dr db: My very personal opinion: The 2245 are the best I have heard and nicely fit into your concept. The enclosure and port tuning is documented here in the library. Try to get one, build a test enclosure. If you don't like it, you can always resell it with a very limited risk of loosing any money... Belive me: You won't...
    Iīve read alot about the 2245 and they will probably sound very nice.
    But Iīve been told, that they are limited in verylowfreq.-output due to their limited xmax. And I would need at least 2 or more to cope with my mains...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ruediger View Post
    I did a quick check of the Aura Sound NS18 992 4A.
    Thiele alignment #7 is a good fit. You end up with a box 441 liters large and with an f3 of 14.6 Hz.

    The efficiency of the driver is 86 dB, which is poor. The 14.6 Hz are useless, you pay for that waste with a large cabinet and poor efficiency.
    I believe the 86db is measured below 100hz and much more realistic than JBLīs specs in regard to the bandwith <50hz.

    The JBL 2245h`s sensitity of 95db is measured above 100hz I think. As Iīm using these below 50hz, whats their realistic efficiency down their ??
    Iīve been told, one Aurasound NS18 will outperform two JBL 2245h below 50hz.

    441liters seems huge, Iīve been told 250liters would correspond to q=0.7. And f3 was at aprox. 30hz...
    Why did you get so different results?
    14,6hz would be useless, thats absolutly correct.

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