what a steal! 4312ds at jbl.com!

[BMWCCA]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the 4412A's were created based upon complaints that the 4410A's are a little bass-shy; that the 4410A's are in the correct volume for the woofers but the 4412A's are not.
I don't have a set of the 4412A's so I can't honestly comment but I do have the 4410A's. It is a great speaker and can certainly be found in excellent condition for around the $400 mark.

Enclosure dimensions are the same for 4410/A and 4412/A. The driver arrangement is different with the 12s oriented for horizontal placement. I have 4412A, L112, L96, and two pair of L80T modified with T3 crossovers. I prefer the 12-inch versions but they produce enough bass that they can become overbearing when boundary reinforcement is active. I prefer them raised off the floor but then the 4412 is a horizontal monitor.

The 4410/A and 4412/A are: 23-1/2 x 14-1/4 x 11-1/4"

The L112 is 24-1/2 x 14-1/4 x 13"
The L96 is 23-1/2 x 14-1/4 x 11-3/4"

There are many here who prefer the 10-inch 3-ways and I respect that opinion. All are great speaker systems. The 12s do have a slightly lower sensitivity rating (1dB) but they are also listed as handling 20% more power than the 10s.

[Dave_72]

ok, i talked to a tech at harman luxury group, and basically, i'm getting a more powerful amp for the s4700s per his rec. apparently, they can handle up to 600 wpc or more and that it would sound better in his opinion...so right now i'm looking into a bryston 14b3, which is a beast of an amp...see the measurements and review below...
http://hifilounge.co.uk/image/attach...d%20Review.pdf

anyway,i'm not selling anytime soon...and i suppose i'll try a new amp, but if the sound is still lackluster, then they gotta go...sorry to make this thread; i am delusional and i thought these 4312ds would be the ticket to audio bliss...all i'm trying to do is get excellent sound, and what i'm getting well, it could be better, but i can't afford the everests! lol. so, thanks for all of your kind words here. i know i'm a pain in the derriere because of my whining about the s4700s, but i just want to be satisfied or satiated so to speak..i want real kick ass sound that makes jump outta my seat and causes me to forget my problems which there are many (long story) that is why i thought i'd try jbl, because of it's history, world class r and d, the promise of studio quality sound, and what have you...i don't like the whole hecho en mexico thing, but the speakers are actually built real good..i was surprised at this...

well, that's basically it, i just wanted to lay it all out..i look forward to your comments regarding this...i'm just an ocd delusional audiophile who most people think is chasing something that doesn't exist...everyone wants a high, and music and audio is my drug..not dope, tobacco, and alcohol...i wish more people would see this, but alas they don't...

[SEAWOLF97]

based upon complaints that the 4410A's are a little bass-shy

I HAD 4410's and initially thought that they were "bass shy" (they are NOT Beats..thank Heavens)

But after a while I came to realize that they are NOT shy. The bass is certainly there WHEN THE PROGRAM MATERIAL CALLS FOR IT.

My impression was that they were brutally honest , to the exclusion of warmth and enjoyment. Kinda the def of studio monitors ?

I HAD 4412's also and felt their bass was not what I wanted. Have gone thru a few JBL 3 way 12 inch bookshelves and the only pair that are still here are 120Ti's.

[honkytonkwillie]

...so right now i'm looking into a bryston 14b3, which is a beast of an amp...

..i look forward to your comments regarding this...

Ok, you asked for it.

You start off considering this screaming deal for 4312d's - two pair, even - and want to dump your S4700s because they represent a bunch of money tied up in a less-than-expected bang for the buck speaker.

Then you decide to double down on the S4700s with an amp that costs about the same as the S4700s that you're still not sure you want. I like your style!

music and audio is my drug..not dope, tobacco, and alcohol...i wish more people would see this, but alas they don't...

I get it.

I'd pass on the 4312d's though, unless you can double your money flipping 10 pair. Then the Bryston is almost free!

[audiomagnate]

ok, i talked to a tech at harman luxury group, and basically, i'm getting a more powerful amp for the s4700s per his rec. apparently, they can handle up to 600 wpc or more and that it would sound better in his opinion...so right now i'm looking into a bryston 14b3, which is a beast of an amp...see the measurements and review below...
http://hifilounge.co.uk/image/attach...d%20Review.pdf

anyway,i'm not selling anytime soon...and i suppose i'll try a new amp, but if the sound is still lackluster, then they gotta go...sorry to make this thread; i am delusional and i thought these 4312ds would be the ticket to audio bliss...all i'm trying to do is get excellent sound, and what i'm getting well, it could be better, but i can't afford the everests! lol. so, thanks for all of your kind words here. i know i'm a pain in the derriere because of my whining about the s4700s, but i just want to be satisfied or satiated so to speak..i want real kick ass sound that makes jump outta my seat and causes me to forget my problems which there are many (long story) that is why i thought i'd try jbl, because of it's history, world class r and d, the promise of studio quality sound, and what have you...i don't like the whole hecho en mexico thing, but the speakers are actually built real good..i was surprised at this...

well, that's basically it, i just wanted to lay it all out..i look forward to your comments regarding this...i'm just an ocd delusional audiophile who most people think is chasing something that doesn't exist...everyone wants a high, and music and audio is my drug..not dope, tobacco, and alcohol...i wish more people would see this, but alas they don't...

You actually thought (before your call to HLG) that a pair of 4312's might sound better than your 4700's? Are you sure about the drugs and alcohol? I think you need a good sub (or two or three).

[BMWCCA]

ok, i talked to a tech at harman luxury group, and basically, i'm getting a more powerful amp for the s4700s per his rec. apparently, they can handle up to 600 wpc or more and that it would sound better in his opinion...so right now i'm looking into a bryston 14b3, which is a beast of an amp...see the measurements and review below...
http://hifilounge.co.uk/image/attach...d%20Review.pdf

anyway,i'm not selling anytime soon...and i suppose i'll try a new amp, but if the sound is still lackluster, then they gotta go...sorry to make this thread; i am delusional and i thought these 4312ds would be the ticket to audio bliss...all i'm trying to do is get excellent sound, and what i'm getting well, it could be better, but i can't afford the everests! lol. so, thanks for all of your kind words here. i know i'm a pain in the derriere because of my whining about the s4700s, but i just want to be satisfied or satiated so to speak..i want real kick ass sound that makes jump outta my seat and causes me to forget my problems which there are many (long story) that is why i thought i'd try jbl, because of it's history, world class r and d, the promise of studio quality sound, and what have you...i don't like the whole hecho en mexico thing, but the speakers are actually built real good..i was surprised at this...

well, that's basically it, i just wanted to lay it all out..i look forward to your comments regarding this...i'm just an ocd delusional audiophile who most people think is chasing something that doesn't exist...everyone wants a high, and music and audio is my drug..not dope, tobacco, and alcohol...i wish more people would see this, but alas they don't...

As I remember, you've had issues with the S4700 for four-or-more years. Don't recall what you had previously that you felt needed improvement that you hoped the S4700 would provide, and I recall you're currently using Bryston electronics already, right? I don't think I've ever met a JBL that my emotions didn't think improved with a more powerful amp but, in your case, I have to wonder if your problem isn't with room placement or room treatment.

If your quest is for "kick ass sound that makes you jump outta of (your) seat" then the Japanese-market voicing of the S4700 just might not be able to deliver without some Home-Theater-style subs and equalization. Being a self-proclaimed audiophile addict, do you even have tone controls to tailor the output of your system? Or (shame!) an equalizer? Perhaps what you're looking for is beyond the range of what the recording engineers put in your material. Or maybe it just needs some help. Your system's flat response (if there is one) just might not suit your ears . . . and there's nothing wrong with that and no shame in shaping that sound toward what you want to hear. That can come from tone controls, EQ, or perhaps placement or room-treatment.

I've not heard the S4700 but its parts would certainly lead me to believe that in the $10-15K price range (you said you got a deal) they should certainly be able to hold their own. Maybe you just need to define what you mean by "kick-ass" sound, and ask if you've ever heard it anywhere in your travels. Then, of course, we'd have to question your overall sanity in assuming an older-design 3-way control-monitor unit with a nearly full-range 12-inch woofer could ever approach what your S4700 should be capable of providing.

Good luck. Remember, there's always the 4345!

[hsosdrum]

I own 4312Es and (as reported elsewhere in these forums) am pretty familiar with how the S4700 sounds, and to me there's no doubt whatsoever that the S4700 is superior in every single way to the 4312. You name the audio reproduction criteria and the S4700 does it better than the 4312, every single one: tonal neutrality, macrodynamics, microdynamics, bass extension, treble extension, soundstaging, etc., etc. The winner is the S4700.

If you need to sell your S4700s because you're short on cash, that's another matter entirely, and I'm sorry for your predicament (been there, had to do that — when I ran into cash-flow issues more than 20 years ago I had to sell a pair of Klipschorns that were personally autographed to me by Paul W. Klipsch). However, if you replace the S4700s with 4312Ds don't for a minute think that you'd be making a step in any direction other than down in sound quality, especially in tonal neutrality. The 4310 was originally voiced to mimic the tonal characteristics of the Altec 604E, to make it easy for recording engineers already familiar with the ubiquitous 604E to hit the gound running in studios equipped with the smaller JBL. This voicing carries over to all of 4310's descendants, including the 4312E, and even though I've never personally auditioned the 4312D I'm sure that voicing didn't skip over the 4312D.

[JeffW]

And not to denigrate 4312s or their owners, but I bought the 4312Ds as speakers for my garage. I figured they'd be nice, rugged speakers, and the utility finish vs wood veneer for standing up to the garage environment. I wouldn't dream of putting anything as nice as S4700s out there. That said, I have a really nice garage stereo

[dprice]

If your quest is for "kick ass sound that makes you jump outta of (your) seat" then the Japanese-market voicing of the S4700 just might not be able to deliver without some Home-Theater-style subs and equalization.!

A couple kilowatts of subwoofage will knock you out of your seat

Cost no object I would go for the JBL SUB18 (or two )
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...8#.V_QiUOArKUk

The JBL S1S-EX or S2S-EX (or similar cinema offerings) would also work nicely.

[Dave_72]

i feel lIke i've been tko'd by tyson in the first goddamn round! lol

gimme a break, ok? idid say i'm a delusional ocd audiophile, did i not? since i did, consider the source please.lol.

i didn't say the s4700s are bad per se...to be honest, i find them a bit lackluster...what i mean is they kind of lack in punch and dynamics, and on the other end of the spectrum, they lack in the little subtleties that make music exciting. they're just not very detailed and they're kind of boring to listen to..i really only listen to them as background music. they were overpriced even at the price i paid. so, my words here ring true because they not exactly have been praised around here or anywhere for that matter. the general consensus here is they are not as good as the 1400 arrays, s3900s, 4365s, and now 4367s.that made me have some serious buyer's remorse....because of that, i felt like i got stuck wiith 2 boat anchors, the resale has plummeted because of the lack of praise and scrutiny, not to mention they're hecho en mexico which doesn't sitall too well with me...unfortunately, i didn't know this until after i bought the damn things. so are they worth much after they've been declared hum drum or ho hum? i dunno you tell me.

as far as the bryston 14b3 amp goes, read the measurements section of that review i posted...if you'renot impressed by that then you ain't impressed by anything period...it's an awesome amp, and it is expensive, but it's probably the best amp in that price range until bryston comes out with the b4s or sst4s.

as far as subs go...sure i'm open to that...that might be a good idea overall.however, i am also looking into other brands at the moment...atc, b&w, magico, and more.

anyway, i speak the truth here...i'm not a liar and i never have been. i may be crazy, but at least i'm honest...lol

[SEAWOLF97]

i didn't say the s4700s are bad per se...to be honest, i find them a bit lackluster...what i mean is they kind of lack in punch and dynamics, and on the other end of the spectrum, they lack in the little subtleties that make music exciting. they're just not very detailed and they're kind of boring to listen to..l

that was also my initial impression with my 250Ti's . A little EQ and a sub sure fixed that one up.

so, my words here ring true because they not exactly have been praised around here or anywhere for that matter. the general consensus here is they are not as good as the 1400 arrays, s3900s, 4365s, and now 4367s.that made me have some serious buyer's remorse....because of that, i felt like i got stuck wiith 2 boat anchors,

actually in another thread that you were complaining about them, there were some very positive opinions about them

as far as subs go...sure i'm open to that...that might be a good idea overall.however, i am also looking into other brands at the moment...atc, b&w, magico, and more.

i got bills to pay...a lot. i really can't have too much money tied up in stereo equipment...besides, i wanna travel, and just enjoy life rather than being stuck in the house with the s4700s...from what people are saying around here, they're not that good and they're overpriced...they're already 4 years old and i don't wanna be stuck with the damn things...

AFAIR , earlier in this thread, didn't you say that funds were tight and you'd like to retrieve some of your investment in the JBL's and now you are looking at Magicos and other expensive models ?


did you not audition the s4700's before buying ?

[BMWCCA]

as far as the bryston 14b3 amp goes, read the measurements section of that review i posted...if you'renot impressed by that then you ain't impressed by anything period...it's an awesome amp, and it is expensive, but it's probably the best amp in that price range until bryston comes out with the b4s or sst4s.

If you feel you got bitten by not knowing about or hearing your S4700 prior to purchase, why not just try a more powerful amp before you dismiss them? Why not find a Bryston dealer who will let you try one out? You're already a Bryston owner. I can't believe they'd expect you to pay over $10,000 for an amp without a test drive! Why not invite your local Bryston dealer to one of your Club events and let him prove what the 14B3 can do with your speakers?

[Dave_72]

that was also my initial impression with my 250Ti's . A little EQ and a sub sure fixed that one up.



actually in another thread that you were complaining about them, there were some very positive opinions about them





AFAIR , earlier in this thread, didn't you say that funds were tight and you'd like to retrieve some of your investment in the JBL's and now you are looking at Magicos and other expensive models ?


did you not audition the s4700's before buying ?

ok cool, i might try that

i don't remember that...again, just the opinions that the s3900s, 4365s, 4367s, and 1400 arrays are better...my gripe is that no one is going gaga over them or drooling over them...which leads me to believe they're not so hot...certainly my first impressions the first week i've had them suggested that...

i looked again...i can do it with the sale of the s4700s...i probably shouldn't sit on 'em too long before they go right down the toilet resale value wise.

yes i did. at the 2012 ces...the guy i bought it from has no storefront, just a little hole in the wall office in a wharehouse/commercial area.

[Dave_72]

If you feel you got bitten by not knowing about or hearing your S4700 prior to purchase, why not just try a more powerful amp before you dismiss them? Why not find a Bryston dealer who will let you try one out? You're already a Bryston owner. I can't believe they'd expect you to pay over $10,000 for an amp without a test drive! Why not invite your local Bryston dealer to one of your Club events and let him prove what the 14B3 can do with your speakers?

great ideas. i mentioned trying the 14b3 earlier in this thread per the advice of the tech @ the harman luxury group to go for a more powerful amp. i told him i couldn't afford mark levinson, and he was ok with that. his name is tom, i believe...thanks for your suggestions, much appreciated.

[ngccglp]

Hi,

any idea how much is the SUB18 going for?