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Thread: Measuring data for D2 (2430k) on M2 waveguide wanted

  1. #1
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Measuring data for D2 (2430k) on M2 waveguide wanted

    Dear all,

    Much info on varoius M2 data has been shared here. However I cannot find a good raw measure ( no/limited smoothing, no dsp, with or without the passive network) of the D2 on the M2.

    Can someone please measure the driver/horn and post here. There are many here using active setup and this could be easily done by bypassing all eq points and change xo to 5-600Hz with 24-36db slope HP.

    Since the measure signal do not need to be strong this will absolutely not effect the driver in any form.

    I would like to compare the raw D2/M2 curve with the JBL factory eq points to figure out how to adapt them to my DYI's.

    i did equalize a flat curve on my setup, but it did not really sound as expected. I just bought a pair of LSR305's for sanity check but this would be better.

    If possible please PM or publish the measuring points or a wav file along with a curve.

    kind regards and thank you
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  2. #2
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Rob,

    If nobody who already might have the info pops up with the data you are looking for and this can be taken with Holm or REW then I will be happy to take the data for you.

    Thanks,
    Scott

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    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Hi Scott,

    That would be brilliant. I have not seen any feedback beside yours so far.

    I you please can do some measurements that would be much apprecierad.

    Kalle said he can do them when he gets back from vaccation so that could well work as a "sanity check". It is always good to have several inputs to verify.

    Kind regards andf thank you
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

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    D2 and 2450Be

    Dear All

    Kalle sent me some fresh measurements of unequalized D2 in the M2 waveguide.
    For fun I compared it with raw measurements of the 2450 with truextent

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    They have the same Level at approx 17k where 2450Be drops like a rock. Approx 10dB from midband. Same amount of compensation is needed for both drivers, but way less EQ to get a smooth response from 2450Be.

    Last week I compared them both sonically in my M2 clones, and we much preferred the Be diaphragm.

    We even got to measure and listen to 476Be in the M2 waveguide

    Did a quick measurement for EQ settings....

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    Excellent output to 18k and not much compensation needed. Less than 2450be and D2.
    Sounds VERY good in the M2 WG but I will stick to my 2450be.

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    2450SL-Be, right?

    This:



    Not this:


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    Yes 2450sl with truextent

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    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Interesting measurements and opinions, thanks!

    So the target curves were identical when comparing the 2450SL-Be and the D2430K?
    How would you describe the difference?

    Sounds VERY good in the M2 WG but I will stick to my 2450be.
    Do you mean that the two were similar enough?

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    Yes, my humble opinion is that sonically, 2450sl/be and 476be is comparable. I EQed them to the same target curve apart from the slight more UHF with 476be.

    To our ears, D2 sounds more polished and sterile than the drivers with Be diaphragm. To use a Hifi cliché, I would describe the Be as more organic. Everything just sounded more real and they gave the music more precence. Thats probably what is called high fidelity...

    But my goodness, D2 is an excellent driver, and maybe it is a bit "owners bias" kicking in here

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    I have posted this one before.
    This D2 is from a vertec, not the M2 labeled version.

    I use a 2435 modified with aquaplass and ferrofluid that sounds better to my ears. Also measures smoother, but drops fast in the UHF.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johanwholst View Post
    Dear All

    Kalle sent me some fresh measurements of unequalized D2 in the M2 waveguide.
    For fun I compared it with raw measurements of the 2450 with truextent

    They have the same Level at approx 17k where 2450Be drops like a rock. Approx 10dB from midband. Same amount of compensation is needed for both drivers, but way less EQ to get a smooth response from 2450Be.

    Last week I compared them both sonically in my M2 clones, and we much preferred the Be diaphragm.

    We even got to measure and listen to 476Be in the M2 waveguide

    Did a quick measurement for EQ settings....

    Excellent output to 18k and not much compensation needed. Less than 2450be and D2.
    Sounds VERY good in the M2 WG but I will stick to my 2450be.
    Thank you Johan and Kalle for the results. It's good to hear the 2450be's are not too far off from the 476be's. I should be posting my results tonight for comparison if everything goes ok.

    When you ran the initial sweep for DSP setting calculations for the 2450be, did you have the D2's DSP setting already on for a baseline and adjusted where needed or did you start clean.

    Thanks,
    Scott

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    Scott: I Eqed 2450sl-Be with a fresh start. It is quite different EQ needed than D2. Roughly, its possible to get away with a shelf and a couple of notches.

    It remains to do better off-axis measurements, but I am very happy with my preliminary result with correcting based solely on on-axis measurements.

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    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Below is what I took after turning off the DSP settings in AA. I also received about the same plot when I turned the settings back on. I assume this is not normal and really can't find out what I'm doing wrong, any suggestions? Thanks, Scott

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    Note: mic distance was centered and 1 meter away from the waveguide.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Kalle's Avatar
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    Scott: That looks strange. Try clicking on the "Freq. Axis button" (if using REW to the left of limits) to get the same window as the others for easier comparison. Are you using REW? Original filters? What HP filter in DSP? I used LR36 @600hz for the non EQ measurement.

    This is my measurements 103cm from floor and 100cm from WG. DIY passive filters. Crown CTs 4200 with BSS. 3,7ms gating. Calibrated U-mic.



    Does it look legit?

    Regards Karl

  14. #14
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalle View Post
    Scott: That looks strange. Try clicking on the "Freq. Axix button" (if using REW to the left of limits) to get the same window as the others for easier comparison. Are you using REW? Original filters? What HP filter in DSP? I used LR36 @600hz for the non EQ measurement.
    Hi Karl,

    I'm using REW. All filters were disabled in the Crown dci unit through AA. Original passive filter was also used. I think something is not correctly set up in my REW because every time I perform a sweep I get an input sensitivity error explaining that it isn't loud enough. I calibrated SPL within REW to 90db with an external meter but received the same results. Looking at the manual my gain might be set too high on the mic input of the Scarlet 2i4. It's currently set at the half way point on the dial. Whatever the problem is I will eventually resolve it because with my M2 project I believe it's essential for even greater results. I'll try again tonight and hopefully be able to provided some meaningful data.

    Thanks,
    Scott

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    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Ok, I took another shot at it tonight and below is what I got. Doesn't look exactly like Karl posted but it's getting better. Both look to have the slight hump at 3K. Microphone height was 98cm and the distance from the waveguide was 100cm. Filter was set at LR36 and crossover point was set to 600.


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