Jbls may have surpassed tannoy prices..dont get the hype. Is it the big drivers or the sound. jbl does go big and heavy in their older stuff but just dont understand the insane prices these days. It better sound out of this planet for 10, 15 or 50grand . Bottom line for me. The pricetag paid better translate into incredible sound not just beefy build.
The sound is one important factor, but lots of other things add to the escalating prices these vintage speakers fetch. I'll touch on one.
In my own opinion, very much related to the sound is all the research and documentation that these speakers have (always?) had available. It's really easy to see that the sound was engineered - their design choices were not an accident or coincidence or convenience.
Growing up in the 1970s and 80s, my dad's speakers were Pioneer and Sansui from 1972 or so. While they looked really nice, like furniture even, I always thought they sounded pretty bad. After studying speaker building in the 90's and reading some texts by Martin Colloms, Vance Dickason, David Weems, Robert Bullock, et.al., I opened up my dads speakers to see what they were built from. They never had a chance.
I'm convinced that - at the time - electronics manufacturers built speakers just to round out their product offerings as complete systems.
I control the treble.
I control the bass.
Iconic halo product? Classic design elements? Beauty in the eye (ear) of the beholder? Why is a (crappy) self portrait of guy with one ear worth more than a private jet?
I just don't understand.
Enough woulda, shoulda, coulda folks now have some pocket change to relive their past...
nostalgia with perceived quality and status (then and now). Add a level of rarity (in nice condition)
and it blows up.
i understand the build is top notch but in the end isnt it all about sound that counts? How does one justify paying 10gs for L300s to fom rotting drivers? 2 years ago giving them away for 2gs or less..thats insane increase.
I wouldn't lump the Paragon in with all the 70's era models. Certainly not sonically.
Probably not to people looking to buy a Paragon. It's a lot like classic cars, some are really nice to look at but handle like a log wagon, have crappy brakes, touchy carbs - but people still crave them. At one time I had a '64 Corvette. It was beautiful, but suffered from the other maladies mentioned above. A new Toyota sedan would probably run circles around it in most "driving" circumstances - but which do you think people would be clubbing each other over the head for at Barrett-Jackson?Originally Posted by vinny
I don't think many people are paying $10K for ragged out L300s. There may be some sellers asking that for them. I have a pocket comb I'll take $1 million for. Doesn't make pocket combs worth $1 million.How does one justify paying 10gs for L300s to fom rotting drivers? 2 years ago giving them away for 2gs or less..thats insane increase.
not sure can compare sound to physical mechanical parts as to comparison in newer vs older cars? Cars dont make music. A vintage stradivarius does
Sure you can. I just did.
And I've read articles where violin players (not collectors) aren't that enamored with the Strad.
The Paragon is a collectible piece of vintage furniture that plays music. It's no longer the absolute pinnacle of sound reproduction - if it ever was. It's value is in its iconic status as a collectible piece of furniture that plays music. You can buy collectible furniture that costs much, much more than a Paragon and doesn't even play music. You can buy speakers that cost much, much less than a Paragon and sound better - but they aren't classic, iconic pieces of audio furniture.
I seriously doubt that anybody purchasing a Paragon today is doing so because they believe it is currently the best sounding speaker available at that price point. They are buying it because it is a classic, iconic piece of furniture that also plays music.
You just said "giving them away" 2 years ago for $2K. That was with the then supply and demand, back in the early 2000's the L300 was bouncing between $1500 to $3500 for really prime examples, and occasionally one would sell for $4K. The 2003 and 2008 recessions reduced demand and brought out some supply as people scrambled to convert speakers to cash. In 2013-2014 most still believed the economies were to be stagnant, but the Chinese economy perked along with many new middle and upper class folks looking for stuff to spend on. Today the world economy is working for a lot of people so demand is up for desirable products, new and old, and where supply and demand intersect, price changes accordingly. Shipping for international clients now is just part of the overall costs, and many are resellers to particular clientele who can afford it. Lots of people around the world who now have much more disposable income and they have heard, seen, or were told about how great USA made JBL speakers are, and how some have become iconic speakers for many reasons besides just sound quality.
justify paying $10K? Well those who can spend $10k usually will pay that for top notch restored versions that need nothing but careful shipping to land in a multimillion dollar home. If they have a couple of upper level cars in the garage, the $10K cost is trivial to them. Are they overpaying? That's a judgement call because the line between good to great sound is blurred with the investment aspect of desirable products. A $2K pair of speakers now selling for $6-10K is a pretty good investment return, so if in 5 years that $10k L300 goes to $20k, not a bad return.
since there are no more original L300's being made, supply is capped, and demand continues to grow for the right speakers in the right condition. Look at what Kenrick Sound in Japan can sell stuff for in refurbished or reproduction versions.
If you're believe cars don't make music, then you, IMHO, aren't listening. The sound of a rumbling V8 in a Shelby GT350, a Camaro RS 305, a Porsche aircooled Flat 6, or the 12 cylinder Porsche or Ferrari just revvingsitting still or moving is music to many. If you happen to be driving, the rest of the physical and aural experience is blended into one. Whether one gets around the track or road better than the other depends on many many things, and of course the driver's skill and experience. The same happens with speakers, the driver being the music selected and the skill of the musicians and recording engineers, and the owner's skill in creating a system that gives rise to a great aural experience. Which speaker is worth spending huge money on depends a lot on what you like and listen for.
How does one justify paying the $10K and up (some up to $100K) prices for new speakers like Wilsons and the like? Yeah, they have tremendous build quality too with modern materials and such, but most don't build their own drivers, and most are built in very limited quantity, thus very limited supply. Based on some reviews, they sound fantastic, but to some not worth the price, unless you're very well heeled.
vintage speakers have emotional factors like nostalgia, pride of ownership, appreciation for the company or people building the speakers, and the fact that many vintage designs really actually work pretty well and have stood up to the test of time. There are many many cost effective vintage solutions, but there are also many hi-buck options mainly due to demand, sometimes driven by real listening, some by hype, some by mystique, sometimes by bragging rights.
if you were to audition modern speakers behind a dark but acoustically transparent veil, you and I would probably be hard pressed to correlate price and sound.
When faced with another JBL find, Good mech986 says
, JBL Fan mech986 says
Vinny;
A good primer on this subject is the Antique Road Show. Watch it some time. It is astounding what an ugly piece of pottery is worth to some people, that I would use for target practice. Same with old Cars, lamps, tables and what ever else. Sometimes things are worth what they are worth only because that is what some putz will pay for it. As for cars there is, nothing like a Ford GT 40 MkII at 200+MPH, and as for Wilson's; that I truly do not understand.
Ed
KEEP ON LISTENING!
Your comments couched as seemingly benign conversational questions has sort of the same vibe to them as the ALTEC 604s suck thread
Then bashing L300s AND Paragons both in the same thread
As for Paragons and what people are willing to pay for one? There's more to it than just intrinsic value vinny, a whole lot more
Note the key word in the top billing for example Lansing "Heritage"
The Paragon was statement piece and still is on a number of levels
Some people find that appealing to own and are willing to pay the freight to do so
I am also interested to know just how many Paragons you've actually had the experience of seeing, touching and hearing, up close and personal?
youtube videos don't count
Joe
sorry still cant compare a mechanical automotive item to a music reproducer. Can only compare a musical reproducer to itself. Thats how i see it. Sound is a unique animal and has many nuances.
so everyone is buying paragons primarily for its furniture value and not for sound?
Did you not get any digestible responses?
Curious what you're looking for...
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