Probably been asked a hundred times/Newbe DIY 2226hpl question..

[brian d]

Hello friends!- Here's my situation- I hope I can get some advise..
- I have a pair of JBL 1025AS , both loaded with twin 2226hpl drivers in excellent shape.
I was thinking of making a 2way bi-amped system (like 4675pro cienema) - so i bought a pair of DH-1a drivers in EV 940 horns, and since the DH-1 drivers are perfect for 500hz and above- I thought this is might be a perfect match-
My question is, Do you think this is a good setup?- or I was also thinking about taking out the 2226 drivers and making a 3-way tri amped system with the horns, one 2226 driver run as a midrange and the second 2226 driver as a sub in a large enclosure . Any thoughts? Has anyone already gone this route??
Thanks for any insight!!
-Brian
BTW - Im using a behringer superx3400 crossover.

[grumpy]

Think I'd try 2.5-way... and go up to 700-800Hz on the main crossover. Roll the MF off on the bottom woofer if used vertically, and let it just add to the other (LF from both woofs, MF from the one closest to the horn). Fun project

[brian d]

Think I'd try 2.5-way... and go up to 700-800Hz on the main crossover. Roll the MF off on the bottom woofer if used vertically, and let it just add to the other (LF from both woofs, MF from the one closest to the horn). Fun project

That's one option I didnt consider!- Thanks!-
So If I tri-amp, will pushing one LF driver and a mid driver in the same cabinet, do you think it mess up the tuning of the enclosure?

[grumpy]

That's one option I didnt consider!- Thanks!-
So If I tri-amp, will pushing one LF driver and a mid driver in the same cabinet, do you think it mess up the tuning of the enclosure?

If you do what I suggested ("2.5" way), no. Otherwise, I would expect so as both woofers would no longer be energizing the airspace at the tuning freq.

You can play with simulations using something like WinISD(free) or bassboxpro (not free).
I'm fine with the free one as hey, it's just a simulation and I've bothered to learn how to use it.
The other one might reduce after-build tweaking some.

I was guessing you weren't necessarily interested in seriously modifying the cabinets.

You could also just go 2-way and run the woofers in parallel (if volume is the priority).

[1audiohack]

I completely agree with Grumpy.

Barry.

[brian d]

If you do what I suggested ("2.5" way), no. Otherwise, I would expect so as both woofers would no longer be energizing the airspace at the tuning freq.

You can play with simulations using something like WinISD(free) or bassboxpro (not free).
I'm fine with the free one as hey, it's just a simulation and I've bothered to learn how to use it.
The other one might reduce after-build tweaking some.

I was guessing you weren't necessarily interested in seriously modifying the cabinets..You could also just go 2-way and run the woofers in parallel (if volume is the priority).

Thanks-
I am a carpenter, and love building enclosures, but the existing enclosure looks pretty tough and will last a lifetime. Plus- I'll certainly be building a showpiece frame and stand for the horns as it is. So If it was necessary to separate the drivers (or add a separate mid) to get a huge improvement in sound quality, I'd build a box..

I've just done a little research and read about the advantages of '2.5' and like what I hear - I'm still a little unclear as how to crossover. As I understand it,- one of the 2226 drivers will handle only sub duty, while the other handles both LF and mid?? . If so, wouldnt tri-amping be advantagious to accommodate the sub driver specifically?

[grumpy]

You may well want to change things up later, in which case your skills would be put to good use

Even though the 2226 is a 15" woofer, a sub it is not. Letting one handle the MF on down and then bringing in a helper somewhere south of 300Hz (easy enough to turn a knob on the crossover to see what works best in your space) should help to overcome this somewhat.

"one of the 2226 drivers will handle only sub duty, while the other handles both LF and mid"

you got it. "Sub" in this case being down to ~40Hz or so (below the box tuning, things drop off pretty quickly)

I'd have to look up your crossover to see how it might be set or adapted to accomplish this (or you may have already). (?) A shallow crossover (6dB/Octave) should be fine for the "sub".

Thanks-
I am a carpenter, and love building enclosures, but the existing enclosure looks pretty tough and will last a lifetime. Plus- I'll certainly be building a showpiece frame and stand for the horns as it is. So If it was necessary to separate the drivers (or add a separate mid) to get a huge improvement in sound quality, I'd build a box..

I've just done a little research and read about the advantages of '2.5' and like what I hear - I'm still a little unclear as how to crossover. As I understand it,- one of the 2226 drivers will handle only sub duty, while the other handles both LF and mid?? . If so, wouldnt tri-amping be advantagious to accommodate the sub driver specifically?

[brian d]

You may well want to change things up later, in which case your skills would be put to good use

Even though the 2226 is a 15" woofer, a sub it is not. Letting one handle the MF on down and then bringing in a helper somewhere south of 300Hz (easy enough to turn a knob on the crossover to see what works best in your space) should help to overcome this somewhat.

"one of the 2226 drivers will handle only sub duty, while the other handles both LF and mid"

you got it. "Sub" in this case being down to ~40Hz or so (below the box tuning, things drop off pretty quickly)

I'd have to look up your crossover to see how it might be set or adapted to accomplish this (or you may have already). (?) A shallow crossover (6dB/Octave) should be fine for the "sub".

That's where I'll start. I LOVE my JBLs and the existing enclosure & 40hz is low enough for me. If I want to get a bit lower, I have a old pair of ATC 12 " drivers that I could make a into a folded horn or something. Thank you for your help. I't'll be interesting getting my first compression horn dialed in. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again!!

[4343]

My 2226J's are setup similar to your cabinet, vent in between. Vertical works best on mine. I used a big inductor on the bottom woofer to roll off the mids from it. I used 9mH on the 2226J's, for around 150Hz rolloff. 2226H's would be 18mH.

From Parts Express, I got their "500W" inductor, and it does seem to work fine up as far as I have taken them, which is probably only 100-150 watts in a live situation amplifying drum pads.

An interesting side effect of using an inductor on an otherwise parallel pair of woofers is that the impedance changes with frequency. from 40Hz up to the rolloff caused by the inductor, my 2 16 ohm woofers are in parallel, so the amp sees 8 ohms. As the inductor begins the rolloff of the bottom woofer the impedance rises, till eventually only one woofer is working, and the amp sees 16 ohms. This is what you need to know when calculating a passive crossover, it must be designed for the load of just the one woofer. I use a slightly modified version of 4313B's "3110A Equivalent Circuit". (Modded for 16 ohm LP.)

Your 2226H woofers will be 4 ohms down low, 8 ohms at the crossover frequency in a 2.5 config.

[more10]

2226 is horrible in midrange. With a big box it is a fantasic woofer. Check out my MLTL build: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...srx-boxes.html

For midrange you can choose anything with a light cone. Choose a crossover frequency from your horns. Then choose a midrange diameter to avoid beaming and cone breakup. Beaming will start when the diameter is a full wavelength. A 15 inch driver will beam at 900 Hz. A 12 inch driver at 1,1 kHz. A 10 at 1.4.

[Lee in Montreal]

Hi

I have a two-way system myself using a 2226 and a 2360 horn. Crossover frequency is between 400 and 500Hz. You will need a digital crossover to make them sound great. The reason is that the 2226 needs SERIOUS eq for hifi duty. It lacks bottom end, and has too much mid.

Basically, you will need two filters on the woofers. Try the following and adjust to your own tastes.
a- 12db bandpass at 40Hz w/ Q=1.4
b- 6db bandpass at 65/70Hz w/ Q=1.1

Then you crossover to your mid-high horn. To crossover that low, you will need a huge horn.

For amps. I use two similar power amps. Channel one goes on woofer 1 and channel two goes on horn1. Do the same with the second power amp. That way, the amp will have great headroom for the bass.

You won't need a subwoofer. I assure you. but if you still want to get the bottom octave, then I use an 18" 2245 from 45Hz down

Lee