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Thread: Altec Horns In a Hartsfield?

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    Altec Horns In a Hartsfield?

    For the last month I've been thinking that I want to try to build a pair of Hartsfield speakers. Has anyone ever tried mounting Altec 811B horns horns in the Hartsfield cabinet? I think it would look a lot better, and cost a lot less. Does anyone have the dimensions of the Hartsfield where the lens mounts? I believe there isn't enough room if I build the speakers according to the plan.

    I'm debating if I should build an exact replica of the Hartsfield, or modify the plans a bit. After everything is done, it still will be a home built speaker with no resale value, probably worth the price of the components only. However I'm not building them to re-sell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertg View Post
    For the last month I've been thinking that I want to try to build a pair of Hartsfield speakers. Has anyone ever tried mounting Altec 811B horns horns in the Hartsfield cabinet? I think it would look a lot better, and cost a lot less. Does anyone have the dimensions of the Hartsfield where the lens mounts? I believe there isn't enough room if I build the speakers according to the plan.

    I'm debating if I should build an exact replica of the Hartsfield, or modify the plans a bit. After everything is done, it still will be a home built speaker with no resale value, probably worth the price of the components only. However I'm not building them to re-sell.

    Did anyone try to put a beetle engine in a Ferrari?

    The Hartsfield are very complicated speakers to build...
    Good luck!
    C

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Obviously, you can do what you like, but I don't think the response of the 811 and its options for drivers will play low enough to meet the bass horn. A jubilee (klipsch) style cab might help some. I believe someone here has, or was going to do this klipsch/JBL mashup. Mixing an altec top with a hartsfield looking klipsch bottom reminds me of a Hank Azaria movie line, "Ahrg ... you just did all three!"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertg View Post
    For the last month I've been thinking that I want to try to build a pair of Hartsfield speakers. Has anyone ever tried mounting Altec 811B horns horns in the Hartsfield cabinet? I think it would look a lot better, and cost a lot less.
    You are in good company. I think up a lot of crazy things too. Luckily I usually change my mind or come to my senses before acting.

    I also like the look of the Altec 811/511 horns. They can sound OK, but the 511 is definitely the better version for most applications.

    If you are hell bent going down this path, I'd suggest the 511 HF horn and the Klipsch Jubilee bass horn.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertg View Post
    For the last month I've been thinking that I want to try to build a pair of Hartsfield speakers. Has anyone ever tried mounting Altec 811B horns horns in the Hartsfield cabinet? I think it would look a lot better, and cost a lot less. Does anyone have the dimensions of the Hartsfield where the lens mounts? I believe there isn't enough room if I build the speakers according to the plan.

    I'm debating if I should build an exact replica of the Hartsfield, or modify the plans a bit. After everything is done, it still will be a home built speaker with no resale value, probably worth the price of the components only. However I'm not building them to re-sell.
    The 811B was designed to be crossed over at >> 800 cycles <<. Grumpy eluded to this in his comment. The maximum frequency range a Hartsfield bass horn will produce efficiently is no greater than 400 Hz. On a good day. You'll never fit the 511 in a Hartsfield unless you intend to mount it on top. If you chose the 511, find yourself a pair of 511E. Very rare, but Bill Hanuschak has modified them properly. They go for a kings ransom on Ebay. The 511E was an ALTEC factory mod to accommodate the large format ALTEC drivers. Personally I would use the 311-90 horn and call it a day. Best to stick with a large format driver. It does wonders for the Klipsch horn bass section.

    "I think it would look a lot better" So, you design by appearance?

    I agree with Mr. Widget. The Jubilee bass horn would be the ticket. I would use the 311-90 with the phenolic diaphragm 390 ( I think ) driver, and top it all off with the 2404 tweeter.

    H.F.

    BTW - The Hartsfield drawing package that can be found in the Heritage library has a few dimensional flaws. I am convinced that drawing package was stolen from the Lansing drafting department before the base line release. There are only one or to revs regarding a piece of hardware, an nothing else. Very suspicious for such a complicated enclosure. If someone had actually taken time to check the drawing package they would have caught the dimensional flaws. Surly someone in the wood shop would have. After building a pair I came to the conclusion that particular model wasn't worth the effort.

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    So if I go ahead with this project I might as well stick with original JBL. I'm trying to figure out which components will work, the part numbering is a little confusing.

    This is what I think I should look for, please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Drivers, 375, 376, 2440, 2441

    Horn or throat, 2309

    Lens 2310

    Woofer D-150-4C is probably really expensive, alternatives E145, 2220A, 130A

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertg View Post
    So if I go ahead with this project I might as well stick with original JBL. I'm trying to figure out which components will work, the part numbering is a little confusing.

    This is what I think I should look for, please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Drivers, 375, 376, 2440, 2441

    Horn or throat, 2309

    Lens 2310

    Woofer D-150-4C is probably really expensive, alternatives E145, 2220A, 130A
    You can find the 150-4C on Ebay, but I wouldn't trust any of them. Too many re-cones, and way too may counterfeits. I know many on the forum think the E145 will serve as a replacement for the 150, but it is not my choice for a horn loader. The 130A is a far better horn loader, but being that any you find on Ebay are quite old I wouldn't subject such a relic to driving a compression type horn. Hands down, the 2220 series drivers are the better choice. The 130A & 2220A share identical Thiele-Small parameters, the only difference will be the upgraded surround on the 2220.

    A word of note, I have searched high and low for a 15" cone driver suitable for horn loading, and there aren't any in current production. There are a lot of folks out there who think that just because a speaker has a cone, it can drive a horn. Sadly, they are wrong.

    If you come across a drawing package for the original Top Loader Hartsfield, the mud magnet model drivers will not fit in the chamber. Only the old D series ( ALNICO magnet ) will fit. The mud magnet models will fit in the Coffin back model.

    As for your high frequency; a JBL compliment will cost you a fortune, probably to the tune of $4K -$5K. A pair of 311-90 and ALTEC drivers can be had at the fraction of the cost. If that be the case, Great Plains Audio is the place to go for brand new drivers under warranty. You'll find the 311-90 on Ebay, just be patient. Those auctions don't come up often.


    FYI - A large radial horn will provide much better imaging.

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    Senior Member gdmoore28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post

    A word of note, I have searched high and low for a 15" cone driver suitable for horn loading, and there aren't any in current production. There are a lot of folks out there who think that just because a speaker has a cone, it can drive a horn. Sadly, they are wrong.
    Just curious about this assertion. Several of the major manufacturers specifically describe their drivers as suitable for horn loaded cabs. What are you looking for in driver specifications that make them appropriate for horn loading? I know nothing about the subject, so looking for your opinions.

    GeeDeeEmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdmoore28 View Post
    Just curious about this assertion. Several of the major manufacturers specifically describe their drivers as suitable for horn loaded cabs. What are you looking for in driver specifications that make them appropriate for horn loading? I know nothing about the subject, so looking for your opinions.

    GeeDeeEmm
    .

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    Would 2215B driver work? I bought a pair of 4502 studio monitors yesterday, and that's what they came with.

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    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post
    .......

    H.F.

    BTW - The Hartsfield drawing package that can be found in the Heritage library has a few dimensional flaws. I am convinced that drawing package was stolen from the Lansing drafting department before the base line release. There are only one or to revs regarding a piece of hardware, an nothing else. Very suspicious for such a complicated enclosure. If someone had actually taken time to check the drawing package they would have caught the dimensional flaws. Surly someone in the wood shop would have. After building a pair I came to the conclusion that particular model wasn't worth the effort.
    Uuuuhhhhh
    I can not imagine to realize such

    ivica
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post
    ..

    A word of note, I have searched high and low for a 15" cone driver suitable for horn loading, and there aren't any in current production. There are a lot of folks out there who think that just because a speaker has a cone, it can drive a horn. Sadly, they are wrong.

    If you come across a drawing package for the original Top Loader Hartsfield, the mud magnet model drivers will not fit in the chamber. Only the old D series ( ALNICO magnet ) will fit. The mud magnet models will fit in the Coffin back model.

    .....
    Hi Horn Fanatic,

    what about new 2216Nd for such horn loading???

    Regards
    ivica

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    I'm going to sound "grumpy", but did you first refer to HF's criteria before asking this? Posted a number of times...

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    Complex!

    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    Uuuuhhhhh
    I can not imagine to realize such

    ivica

    You have to be an expert to make a Hartfield! You really have to know what you are doing!
    That's what I was saying below...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    Hi Horn Fanatic,

    what about new 2216Nd for such horn loading???

    Regards
    ivica
    With an EBP of 89.2 the 2216Nd would not be my choice as a horn loader.

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