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Thread: JBL L112, L150A questions, possible 128h replacement

  1. #1
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    JBL L112, L150A questions, possible 128h replacement

    Hi,

    Have some questions, any help will be appreciated

    So the story:
    I happen to own from like 10 years a pair of JBL112. Was lucky to buy them from boot sale. Bass drives were crap, some 22xx and were in so bad shape, all dust, and one of them suffered a kick, so i directly threw them at garbage without even trying to refoam them.
    All else they are fine looking.

    So i happened to find a no name vintage , like new, paper cone Alnico 12" drives, that fit in and play surprisingly well. May be they lack sth in bass but any how i did not care at the time so much. Biggest change was putting them on spikes which brought the WOW factor. Original stands finished at garbage. So what i am saying is that the spikes, 5 degree lifted front side and careful room placement made them very pleasing to listen to. I have no pretense that they play as originally or flat , but as i said very pleasant. My humble system is PC-Objective ODAC-Moscode 300 hybrid amp - JBL L112.

    Another thing is that i have just finished building my 8x4 CNC so i started to think of making myself some better speakers as a side project. I looked around and and from my point of view the L112 are not so bad compared to most things that could be build on ~1000euro budget. Apart i like them so much.

    The original bass is 128H i read. The problems with that bass:
    -expensive to find and import to Europe from USA
    -old
    -the repair and generally i don't think reconing could be done properly at home. I remember when i saw the dusty 22xx i said to myself i would not buy again that crap.

    So i want to dive a bit in the DIY. For now my idea is the following:

    Build myself from scratch open baffle OBL-15, which is well documented, within my budget and no brainer, as all the design work is done. I am not very worried for the 20hz reproduction as i am more of a natural sound person, being myself an acoustical instrument maker. Plus i have the 150w amp which could drive anything easily, now is fully recapped with neutral Audine Plus caps, but not modded at all after a lot of thought, so together with the Odac it sounds surgical.

    Or find a suitable not very expensive modern woofer speaker for the L112, dive into buying measuring microphone, learn this and that, change the crossover a bit if needed, then once happy, build a 150a speaker. As far as i understand the 150a is same same with just extended size and passive speaker. So the end result could be modern 150a, with modern speakers, or a hybrid, only the bass new.

    Why the 150A clone? i have already the L112 and to my liking the biggest thing i would like would be the 150A or if i would like to be bigger, then it would be open baffle. I have the model to compare, have CNC, etc.. Did i tell you i love the L112. Small enough to be bookshelf, big enough to be floor standers. Good for low volume listening and at the same time kick very seriously for party. before the tube amp i had Hk power amp, wow. The way i have them set, the imaging is ridiculously good, watching a movie you could swear the sound comes from the person speaking.

    I would like to take a pleasant journey and i am not in a hurry, as i am perfectly happy with what i have.

    What have i done till now:
    from here and there /more from here :-)/ have all specs of the speakers and crossovers

    For now i have narrowed to 2 possible candidates:

    Beyma SM-112/N
    -first of all they are made in Europe and only 80km from where i live now in Spain so i assume what they say is true
    -cheap at ~100 euro the piece
    -almost all specs are the right ones, RMS, and especially the size of the voice coil which is 3" If i did not know better, i could say they are very much a copy of the 128h

    the problem? FS of 40hz instead of 20HZ as the 128H




    It seems its very difficult to find non PA speaker for cheap with low FS as a substitute for the 128H. The other contender is SB Acoustics SB34NRXL75-8 12" Woofer. It seems almost ideal substitute if i am not missing something.
    -3" voice coil
    -22hz FS !!
    -its more expensive and maybe difficult to find in Europe


    So with my limited understanding here i am. Any ideas, thoughts, etc. please?




    PS. if there was a comparable to the L112, 150A DIy speaker plans i would have started there. No i dont like multiple 8" bass drivers even if there are 10 of them and thy play like 20k speakers, neither i have place for 18" speakers. To me 12" or as max 15" woofer in a speaker is best for home. 8" could be very fast and 2 of them could have more surface than 12" speaker, but no thanks. I am musical instrument maker / diy/ so i hear it, without going crazy. If i had the space, i would have build eventually one of the big JBL clones i have sen here.


    bellow all info about speakers on one place
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan silyavski View Post
    Hi,

    Have some questions, any help will be appreciated

    So the story:............................................ .................
    ................................

    So with my limited understanding here i am. Any ideas, thoughts, etc. please?
    Hello Boyan,
    Yes, what exactly are the questions?
    What is a 22xx bass driver?
    And why did you leave Bulgaria?
    Welcome
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Smith Jr View Post
    Yes, what is the question?
    "possible 128h replacement"


  4. #4
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    The 128H plays a big part in the way these systems do sound IMHO, and is used quite high in frequency by nowadays standards (1.1kHz in the L112!)
    This woofer has a specific "paper" sound to it that is very appealing, with no offensive breakups.
    It also has a nice LF behavior.

    The SB acoustic looks like a nice woofer, but not sure it would sound as "smooth" as a 128H in the upper range, and most probably not sound the same.

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    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan silyavski View Post
    The original bass is 128H i read. The problems with that bass:
    -expensive to find and import to Europe from USA
    -old
    -the repair and generally i don't think reconing could be done properly at home. I remember when i saw the dusty 22xx i said to myself i would not buy again that crap.
    I'd not stray from the 128H, if it was me.

    Eons ago, here, I worked on my 4312 L/Rs and swapped-in the 128Hs in-place of the 2213Hs. WinISD models suggested the 128H would be modestly better - the results (128H cabinet to 2213H cabinet, mono) was pretty impressive.

    Get WinISD or some other box modelling software and see. WinISD has build in T-S parameters for many/most vintage JBL drivers.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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    Thanks guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Smith Jr View Post
    Hello Boyan,
    Yes, what exactly are the questions?
    What is a 22xx bass driver?
    And why did you leave Bulgaria?
    Welcome
    Joe
    The L112 had 22?? / i dont remember exactly the number/ driver inside instead of the 128H, when i purchased them

    I left Bulgaria as it happened so. Life here in Spain is still best / for many people/ . Living in a quiet town 200m from sea with actually no winter...


    The questions still are:

    1. No new drivers which are similar and better than the old 128H? Nobody copied that driver? Hows that if its so good :-)

    2. Forget what i said about 8" drivers. Reality is i have not heard in real life a good system using them. Has sb heard system say like the DIY
    Statements speakers or sth similar /using pair of 8" instead 1x12" woofer/ or better and how will that compare to the L112 or what interests me more to the L150A????
    cause i am really into building a L150A or the Statements. maybe even more the Statements as all parts will be brand new. Especially cause i would like to make at least the front from hardwood. And i would like to invest money where its worth.



    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    The 128H plays a big part in the way these systems do sound IMHO, and is used quite high in frequency by nowadays standards (1.1kHz in the L112!)
    This woofer has a specific "paper" sound to it that is very appealing, with no offensive breakups.
    It also has a nice LF behavior.

    The SB acoustic looks like a nice woofer, but not sure it would sound as "smooth" as a 128H in the upper range, and most probably not sound the same.
    I missed that. I see the SB drops exactly there at around 1100hz so still viable. The Beyma seems able there.


    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    I'd not stray from the 128H, if it was me.

    Eons ago, here, I worked on my 4312 L/Rs and swapped-in the 128Hs in-place of the 2213Hs. WinISD models suggested the 128H would be modestly better - the results (128H cabinet to 2213H cabinet, mono) was pretty impressive.

    Get WinISD or some other box modelling software and see. WinISD has build in T-S parameters for many/most vintage JBL drivers.
    Just downloaded it. Will try and introduce both.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Smith Jr View Post
    Hello Boyan,
    Yes, what exactly are the questions?
    What is a 22xx bass driver?
    And why did you leave Bulgaria?
    Welcome
    Joe
    Hey Joe, channeling Wagner, are we?

    Or is it just a coincidence that the date of your first post is the date of his last??
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    while i am searching for good 128h on the market, here is another one possible substitute Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm , it seems even better than the 2 others i found before . For 150$ is a no brainer, unfortunately in Europe is much more expensive.

  9. #9
    Member Dave Cawley's Avatar
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    Question

    Hi Boyan

    What did you eventually do, or conclude ?

    Thanks

    Dave
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

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    Hi,
    I found also :

    - Monacor SPH-300KE , ~150 euro this one looks to me almost same same as the original, apart paper from kevlar, which does not bother me /now/

    -DAYTON REFERENCE HF SUBWOOFER - 8 OHM - 12", more RMS, a bit less sensitive, ~200euro

    -12" SB34NRXL75-8 :: SB Acoustics




    At the end after some search i found in europe the original 128h drives for a normal price. OK. Now they are in. First impression was "Mehh, why did i waste 300euro".as Dire Straights did not sound any better, as i expected. But next when i started some woofer tests from Youtube and later on listening to things like Entheogenic and E-mantra it was like " OMG, F%%^k, OMG!!!" And the middle and highs sound much better. Much better.

    The bass has a life on its own, super lively, roundish and punchy. Money well spend. Now i wonder why did not do it earlier. Though have to note that it was more difficult and time consuming to arrange them so that they "disappear" plus i lost some sensitivity, now have to crank the amp much more.

    My system is : PC-ODAC-Moscode 300 hybrid AMP /2x150W 8ohm/ ,DIY pure silver wire interconnect between them. The amp is fully rebuild and recapped using Audyn Gold Caps. Only bad thing is now that all music which is not a good recording, sounds like sh%t.

    Next i have a plan to update the crossover caps with same Audyn gold. Cheap or at least not so expensive, transparent.

    I don't think of ever selling the L112 or buying a woofer. Same goes for the Moscode AMP. I will rather buy the same setup for my workshop. i was browsing DIY speaker builds and plans for 3 months until i found the bass drivers. One thing is sure- for the same money of L112, you can not build a better speaker, with exception maybe of the Statements, but 2x8" is not same as 1x12"

  11. #11
    Member Dave Cawley's Avatar
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    Smile

    .
    OK, thanks. If your L112's are anything like my L150's then internal wiring and elimination of the the push-on connectors should be a must ?

    Could you PM me were you got the original 128H's from please ?

    Thanks

    Dave
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

  12. #12
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Having both L112 and L150A models, I can submit my opinion that the speaker terminals, while functional, can wear out/break (plastic "caps") and are not conducive to using larger gage wire. I've not felt the need to modify either crossover (or internal wiring), but have the later networks with the bypassed capacitors. I would be inclined to experiment if I had the older networks. Hope you find some 128H or 128H-1 drivers.

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    I have eliminated the connectors long ago. My speaker wire is soldered directly to the crossover wire that goes to the before mentioned connectors. I use thin 16 AWG wire if i remember correctly / 1.2mm2/ or it was 18AWG/1.0mm2/. And before anyone jumps, yes, using thicker wire could be heard by me, its like an added boominess.

    No need for secrecy, i found the speakers using HI FI Shark, i greatly recommend its search. They were listed locally in Belgium. So i had to find a friend in Belgium to contact the guy for me, as otherwise i was not permitted. Then we made contact and i bought them after a month or so, as he was waiting for sb before me at the beginning. It was a bit risky purchase, not knowing the buyer. One speaker came scratching, obviously after reckoning and staying in a box for an year without using. Used some small piece of foam between case cone to lift it up from one side a bit. Plays same. Guy offered to refund me a bit but i said, let's stay like that a bit then we will see if it takes its place with time. I read some people use Acetone for that purpose, but as it plays really well, i went the more patient road.

    if you have the speakers, its worth reconing them i believe. Its not so difficult or just pay sb.


    http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=128+jbl

    I see now 1 pair here in Spain, a bit kicked in. Why don't you speak with him, offer him less? I could also ship them from here by UPS to you for 25Euro, not 100 as he wants. As i use my wife's company contract. Have to check though for GB. I have managed in the past using a vacuum cleaner and fixture/tube/ to suck the bumped caps. I don't believe that will make audible difference. Of course all perfect is nicer. Tell him to check by pushing them gently inside if scratching!

    Otherwise there are people in Europe who could recone. In UK there must be at least some...

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