This custom version is Pretty cool, liquid cooled with Carbon![]()
It’s used in real horns and powered by 3xiTech 6000, 18kw 👍
They also use a similar 2269h
Hello, you can check realhorns on FB or contact andreas plodek directly there. He upgraded the 8 2267 drivers in his big 4m horn due to cone fatique in the chamber. the 2269 he is using in his custom TCB subs are still original. for an 800Hz usage i would always recommend an driver with less mms. 2267 and 2269 are really subwoofers not intended to be used to 1k. i think you will loose many details with lower sound pressure levels- Realhorns is located in germany. the do some gigs per year in germany, netherlands and belgium which i wiould really recommend if you like the sound of big horns.
CROWN+JBL+18SOUND = Fun
CROWN+JBL+18SOUND = Fun
Anyone tried these now?
And are there any other TS for them? I agree with Ari that the info above seems a bir strange and could be wrong
Hi everyone.
I would appreciate any input you may have, and let me say thank you in advance.
Here's my situation. I built a pair of ported 3 way speakers using JBL D2 tweeters, 2169 midranges, and 2267H 15" woofers. The cabinets are 16x19x31 (outer dimensions) and 14.5x17.5x29.5 (internal dimensions), and I used 6" ports that are 15" long. By my calculations that means the cabinets have roughly 4.338 cubic feet of air space (not including the displacement caused by the drivers, which is probably at least a cubic foot).
I'm running the woofers in parallel (so 4 ohms) and giving them each 1500 watts of power from a Crown I-Tech amp. They sound fine. But they don't sound right. And they don't have the low frequency rumble I expected to hear. I have a pair of 12" JBL's in other cabinets that i'm putting the same power into and they sound much better to me. They seem to hit lower, louder, deeper, with the appropriate rumble you expect from a woofer or subwoofer.
My question is:
Should I change the cabinets or the ports? I can't find much of any information on the 2267H woofers. There's no recommended volume of air space or cabinet dimensions provided by JBL. JBL doesn't suggest a frequency to tune them to. There's no suggestion of port size or length that I can find.
Since I couldn't find this information, I designed the cabinets by referring to the dimensions of a VTC-V25 cabinet (cut in half), since those have the identical drivers. Unfortunately, the VTC-V25 uses a slot port, so I couldn't get a port size or length there.
Does anyone know how to find out the appropriate volume for my cabinets? Port size and length? I'm guessing this stuff can be calculated from the Thiel parameters. But i'm not enough of an expert to know how to do the calculations.
Or maybe I should be emailing JBL and asking them? Does anyone have an email address of someone at JBL who I could ask and who would be able to provide this info?
THANK YOU! This is something i've been trying to deal with for a while and just haven't had any luck. So any help would be hugely appreciated.
And if anyone wants to see the speakers, there's a video on my youtube channel. Just search for "ethan zimmer" on youtube and you'll find the video.
Thanks again,
EZ
The T/S are listed here. Quick and dirty would be to determine the size of the slot's and just copy them. Use the attached list run them in a box program like WinISD which is a free download.
Rob
https://help.harmanpro.com/thiele-sm...efinitions-(2)
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
Hi Rob,
thank you. I'll give WinISD a try.
I guess my problem is that I don't understand what the T/S mean. Hopefully WinISD will help with that. But based on the T/S parameters, what is the appropriate volume of air for this driver? And how do you calculate it?
And then a second question, what is the purpose of tuning a cabinet to a certain frequency? I have never understood this concept. Is it done because each driver has a certain frequency that it should be tuned to? Or is it done to get a different sound from the cabinet? Or is it done for efficiency's sake, or to compensate for a lack of amplification? I just don't understand the point of doing it.
EZ
Hi Rob,
one more question. When using WinISD, I input the parameters and measurements of the 2267H driver. When I input the cabinet volume, does WinISD automatically take the displacement of the driver into consideration? Or do I have to do that first before I input the cabinet's volume? My cabinets are 4.338 cubic feet without taking into account of the driver displacement. They are more like 3.33 cubic feet after taking the driver displacement into consideration. Do I input 4.338 or 3.33?
Thank you again
EZ
Hi Zimpah,
Welcome to the Lansing Heritage.
First its not clear to me how many drivers you have per box, specially woofer(s)
You say "I built a pair of ported 3 way speakers", which would imply one of each, however you then add "I'm running the woofers in parallel (so 4 ohms)", does this mean two woofers per box?? This impacts proper volume.
Your box volume calculation from internal dimensions is correct. Your driver displacement "at least a cubic foot" would be wrong for one woofer. A normal 15" takes .2 cu ft of space, yours is a deeper driver then add little more, i doubt you'd make it to .5 cu ft for one.
You need to ADD volume to the cab to compensate for space taken in the box by each driver (gross internal volume). But when modeling a box in software you input the NET box volume.
The 2267 has a very low Vas parameter for a 15" at 89 L, indicating a smaller box and a pretty stiff suspension. However, Qts (the other parameter influencing box size) is pretty high at .42, so its difficult to predict from the top of the head the box size outcome without modeling it in speaker design software.
RE "And they don't have the low frequency rumble I expected to hear."
There's a number of reasons why bass may be poor: box volume, box tuning, box placement in room, box losses (poorly sealed cab, except for vent), box poor bracing (LF vibrating the panels instead of producing bass sound). These need to be looked at.
Assuming the above is ok, then what you are looking for is not a difficult task, but it takes some time to make things right...
Richard
EDIT: Win ISD assumes box losses will be QL10 which is overly optimistic. The standard is QL7 a more reasonable number, leading to a little larger box compensating for losses. The QL number can be changed to 7 in Win ISD, which you should do.
Hi Richard,
thanks for the response.
To answer you, I built a pair of speakers, each has one 2267H woofer, one 2069 midrange, and one D2 tweeter. The woofers are wired in parallel to one amplifier channel in order to get the maximum power out of the amplifier into each woofer.
Inside the cabinets are the D2 tweeter and its lens, the midrange and it's lens, and the woofer. So I figure the three of them take up about 1 cubic foot of air space.
Now, you're saying that when I input the cabinet volume number, I want to input the net amount of liters? That makes sense except then why does WinISD ask for detailed woofer dimensional measurements? I presumed that it was taking those measurements into account when calculating box volume, port size, etc... Or am I wrong about this?
At any rate, after playing around with WinISD, it seems like the cabinets I built are almost exactly what WinISD suggests. I ended up going with one 6" wide 15" long round port in each cabinet. WinISD suggests a 4" wide 8" long port. But if I substitute a 6" port, it says it should be 14" long. So pretty close to what I built.
As far as the cabinets themselves, they're solid maple hardwood, carefully built, with all the edges both glued, caulked, and nailed together, then I put probably 15 coats of polyurethane on the outside. So the cabinets shouldn't be leaky or vibrating at all.
Anyways, let me know your thoughts on the above. And check out the video if you have time. The speakers are pretty nice, and you might enjoy the video. But you're obviously more of an expert than I in this field, and any feedback or input you have would be greatly appreciated. I'm always happy to learn more.
Here's a link:
https://youtu.be/xq0KgwQ4WMc
EZ
With the explanation given the cubic foot mentioned should be about right for all that's in the box.
Btw you stated the cab volume but not the tuning frequency i think, these go hand in hand to produce a LF alignment. ISD should have given you Fb (port tuning freq).
RE I want to input the net amount of liters? Yes net air volume is what the woofer works with.
RE why does WinISD ask for detailed woofer dimensional measurements? It seems you are wrong in the presumption. I'll take for granted here that you're not talking about parameter Sd for example which is about cone area, but rather you have in mind things such as driver frame diameter, depth, hole cutout, etc. If so these have nothing to do with software box modeling which uses only T/S parameters. Instead its more like "driver statistics" kept in the database for speaker building phase, a place where they're easily found if needed.
I use both Win ISD and Winspeakerz. ISD has a poor driver database vs 1500+ in the latter, its a good start. The reason i mention this is the vent tube diameter. The ISD 4" vent is totally unacceptable for that 15" at the drive levels you refer to. The 6" is a minimum. Winspeakerz takes into account driver input power to recommend a vent dia. or multiple vents with size and length. If i had modeled your cab would probably get over 6". At high drive vents eventually "choke" if not large enough, unable to pass the required amount of air. Cab then reacts more like a sealed box.
You complain about lack of bass and indicate the Win ISD box is about the same as the one you made. So, looking at other items:
Could there be in your system a LF high-pass filter you might have left activated?
We've seen before a member having overpowered his system and a number of crossover components where pretty "cooked".
I note your description didn't mention any bracing, this is surprising for cabs of this power, even with good wood used, you talked about 1500 watts of power that's a fair amount. Most cabs do require panel bracing.
RE Anyways, let me know your thoughts on the above
Its possible cab weakness might be bracing and vent size in view of power levels used. Put your hand on box at different places during high drive, feel vibrations? Might indicate a lack of bracing. Also, at low drive this time, say 50-100W, is the bass sound better (e.g. deeper) than at high drive? If so could be an indication of port choking at high level. I hope the above helps you.
Richard
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