4311 resotoration, go for it or pass?

[Goldjazz]

Hi all,

Considering restoring these pretty beat up 4311b's as a gift for a friend. Just a little worried I may not be able to get them in a gift worthy state. Biggest concern is the chipped corner you may just be able to see top left one. I've tried timber colored putty before to fix such a thing it was pretty difficult to get it to match in colour. I guess I could sort of router off the whole lip around the front of the cabinet and replace it with a trim.

Also has anyone every successfully cleaned grubby woofer such as these?

We've also got a dented woofer dust cap, possibly dented tweeters, mids look ok, foilcals look salvageable.

So what ya think go for it of pass on it? Tough call for me cause I know he'll like them sound wise cause he liked my 4311's. Just don't want to give him something that looks too crappy.

Thanks.

[SEAWOLF97]

Your decision of course depends on how much you'll have to pay for them , driver functionality and how much of the woodwork you can do w/o "farming them out".

Prices seem to be rising ... here are some sample asking prices from my area.

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/5549590932.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/5556775314.html

I did not "see" anything in your pics that would immediately disqualify them.

[Goldjazz]

Yep price is low but fair in my opinion given the amount of work needed to fix them up. I'm told all drivers are working but will inspect myself. Seems these days the cost of genuine recone kits is such you are better off sourcing a replacement driver which adds up.
Will have a close look amd make a call. If I go ahead with the resto ecpect more pics of the job.

[mech986]

If your friend is likely to run the drivers with the grilles on, then light cleaning will be all that is necessary, the drivers will be hidden. Otherwise, some enterprising DIY'ers will find a very similar spray paint, mask off the surround and center cap, and lightly mist spray a fine, even paint coat. It will change the parameters of the woofer slightly but if done with a light hand, you may find a good cosmetic vs. performance compromise.

The tweeter domes are more of a problem. Salvaging the old ones can work because there are small replacement center domes for the tweeters but that requires cutting the old out, and gluing in new. The slight change in weight can be more problematic for a tweeter but many complain the tweeter is already too bright so who knows, it might be better. Otherwise, I'd look for a pair of nice clean used units, or get the slightly later LE25-2, -3, or -4 or LE26. They are all the same tweeter with slightly different faceplate treatments, some of which could be renovated to look like the originals. IMO, the LE26 is probably a bit better tweeter, and if you use a replacement foam ring on it, even with the sloped original faceplate, you may find it works quite well.

As for the cabinets, that will depend on your skills and time. New grill cloth is available on Ebay from Huntley Audio.

The real question will be whether you keep the original crossover configuration or modify it to a newer and somewhat smoother version, the Murphy crossover being the less expensive option compared to the Torgelson (sp).

[Goldjazz]

If your friend is likely to run the drivers with the grilles on, then light cleaning will be all that is necessary, the drivers will be hidden. Otherwise, some enterprising DIY'ers will find a very similar spray paint, mask off the surround and center cap, and lightly mist spray a fine, even paint coat. It will change the parameters of the woofer slightly but if done with a light hand, you may find a good cosmetic vs. performance compromise.

The tweeter domes are more of a problem. Salvaging the old ones can work because there are small replacement center domes for the tweeters but that requires cutting the old out, and gluing in new. The slight change in weight can be more problematic for a tweeter but many complain the tweeter is already too bright so who knows, it might be better. Otherwise, I'd look for a pair of nice clean used units, or get the slightly later LE25-2, -3, or -4 or LE26. They are all the same tweeter with slightly different faceplate treatments, some of which could be renovated to look like the originals. IMO, the LE26 is probably a bit better tweeter, and if you use a replacement foam ring on it, even with the sloped original faceplate, you may find it works quite well.

As for the cabinets, that will depend on your skills and time. New grill cloth is available on Ebay from Huntley Audio.

The real question will be whether you keep the original crossover configuration or modify it to a newer and somewhat smoother version, the Murphy crossover being the less expensive option compared to the Torgelson (sp).

Cheers Mech. So I did pick these up in the end. A nice road trip up the coast. I love road tripping for speakers. So the cabinet's werent as bad as I thought but the driver were pretty bad. One of the woofers and one mid had rips in the cones poorly glued up, and both tweeters had badly puckered dust caps and even a bit of creasing to their cones. So I've gotta fix these up for my friend in a few weeks so I'm just gonna take the drivers and crossover from my previously resotored 4311's and trransfer into these. Then eventually source replacement drivers for this one. So it'l be more of a cabinet restoration project than a driver/crossover one. The crossovers from the previous I had already recapped. Will take some pics of the cabinet restoration for those interested.

Good thininking on the light spray on the cones. I also know someone who very lightly sponged paint onto his cones to bring them back to white, he said that worked well too.

Stay tuned for some pics of the cabinet work.

[kelossus]

Cheers Mech. So I did pick these up in the end. A nice road trip up the coast. I love road tripping for speakers. So the cabinet's werent as bad as I thought but the driver were pretty bad. One of the woofers and one mid had rips in the cones poorly glued up, and both tweeters had badly puckered dust caps and even a bit of creasing to their cones. So I've gotta fix these up for my friend in a few weeks so I'm just gonna take the drivers and crossover from my previously resotored 4311's and trransfer into these. Then eventually source replacement drivers for this one. So it'l be more of a cabinet restoration project than a driver/crossover one. The crossovers from the previous I had already recapped. Will take some pics of the cabinet restoration for those interested.

Good thininking on the light spray on the cones. I also know someone who very lightly sponged paint onto his cones to bring them back to white, he said that worked well too.

Stay tuned for some pics of the cabinet work.

For the woofer cones, you can lightly apply 3% Peroxide and it bleaches the cone white again. Takes a few coats but it works flawlessly.

Much easier than painting.

[Goldjazz]

For the woofer cones, you can lightly apply 3% Peroxide and it bleaches the cone white again. Takes a few coats but it works flawlessly.Much easier than painting.

Thanks Kelossus this sounds like a much better solution. Will give it a go. Thanks

[Joseph Smith Jr]

The tweeter center domes and the woofer dust cap can easily be restored with a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol (99%) and distilled water + some skill and very moderate judiciously CONTROLLED vacuum, if necessary

Those LE25 cut out and glue jobs are a hack and definitely a last resort, plus you run the risk of making things worse than they already are................that's always the case I guess with anything broken, but taking a blade to them is something I try to avoid at all costs...............plus I haven't had to

The water and alcohol mix will also cure cone creasing as well, it's almost magical

[Goldjazz]

The tweeter center domes and the woofer dust cap can easily be restored with a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol (99%) and distilled water + some skill and very moderate judiciously CONTROLLED vacuum, if necessary

Those LE25 cut out and glue jobs are a hack and definitely a last resort, plus you run the risk of making things worse than they already are................that's always the case I guess with anything broken, but taking a blade to them is something I try to avoid at all costs...............plus I haven't had to

The water and alcohol mix will also cure cone creasing as well, it's almost magical

Cheers Joe sounds like a cool trick, will give it a go. The restoration is going well I'm making good progress on the cabinets. I've basically sanded them back and filled in the chipped corner with a timber coloured putty called "timber Mate" here in Australia. Then restained. The match is pretty good so far. Just trying to work out the best finish to bring out the timber and a bit of gloss. I've tried danish oil on the bottoms but its just too dull. Will upload some pics soon.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

Cheers Joe sounds like a cool trick, will give it a go. The restoration is going well I'm making good progress on the cabinets. I've basically sanded them back and filled in the chipped corner with a timber coloured putty called "timber Mate" here in Australia. Then restained. The match is pretty good so far. Just trying to work out the best finish to bring out the timber and a bit of gloss. I've tried danish oil on the bottoms but its just too dull. Will upload some pics soon.

Wrinkles take several coats, use a small modeler's brush, very soft, and apply just enough solution to wet the offending area. How bad the wrinkle is will determine how many tries it takes, be patient and don't scrub it, just wet it

Let it dry well between treatments and avoid saturating the cone edge to surround bonding area as best as possible. Won't be the end of the world if you get it wet, I just try not to do it as it may compromise the ancient adhesive

I've done this successfully on tweeters still in the box and on the vertical, but it would be smart and probably a whole lot easier and the smart thing for better control to remove them and do this on the table for better control. But I mention this as it gives you an idea of how much solution we're applying and just how wet we're getting things here, it can be done on the vertical if you have a steady hand.

Avoid pooling of fluid around that dust cap to cone joint as well for obvious reasons. The old pulp fiber is so dehydrated by now and absorbent it might find it's way down in the motor if you over did it. Just treat it like putting on a heavy coat of paint and allow drying between coats.

I've never made one fall apart or stop working yet! Just look a little better

What started me on this technique is that I have had more than a few LE25 cones with little blemishes in them from the factory and I wanted to see if controlled shrinkage would improve their appearance as the first thing anyone thinks when they see that is that it is some sort of wound. If you look at photographs of a lot of known original LE25s you will see what I am talking about, it's as if a chunk of fiber or whatever did not allow the press to form them just perfectly, that or some that more than occasionally occurred during assembly?

On the worst I've had, an actual wrinkle that you could not only see but also feel, I was able to reduce it by about 98%. You can still see a change in texture but at least it's smooth and follows the contours of the rest of the little cone

Once I know that it's as good as it's going to get I give the entire cone a light solution wash for good measure and this also assures that the paper's color all appears homogeneous. Theoretical though, never had an issue with that either, that's why I use the distilled water. Shouldn't cause any splotches. Just a final wash for good measure, tightening the entire plane of the little cone uniformly

[Goldjazz]

Wrinkles take several coats, use a small modeler's brush, very soft, and apply just enough solution to wet the offending area. How bad the wrinkle is will determine how many tries it takes, be patient and don't scrub it, just wet it

Let it dry well between treatments and avoid saturating the cone edge to surround bonding area as best as possible. Won't be the end of the world if you get it wet, I just try not to do it as it may compromise the ancient adhesive

I've done this successfully on tweeters still in the box and on the vertical, but it would be smart and probably a whole lot easier and the smart thing for better control to remove them and do this on the table for better control. But I mention this as it gives you an idea of how much solution we're applying and just how wet we're getting things here, it can be done on the vertical if you have a steady hand.

Avoid pooling of fluid around that dust cap to cone joint as well for obvious reasons. The old pulp fiber is so dehydrated by now and absorbent it might find it's way down in the motor if you over did it. Just treat it like putting on a heavy coat of paint and allow drying between coats.

I've never made one fall apart or stop working yet! Just look a little better

What started me on this technique is that I have had more than a few LE25 cones with little blemishes in them from the factory and I wanted to see if controlled shrinkage would improve their appearance as the first thing anyone thinks when they see that is that it is some sort of wound. If you look at photographs of a lot of known original LE25s you will see what I am talking about, it's as if a chunk of fiber or whatever did not allow the press to form them just perfectly, that or some that more than occasionally occurred during assembly?

On the worst I've had, an actual wrinkle that you could not only see but also feel, I was able to reduce it by about 98%. You can still see a change in texture but at least it's smooth and follows the contours of the rest of the little cone

Once I know that it's as good as it's going to get I give the entire cone a light solution wash for good measure and this also assures that the paper's color all appears homogeneous. Theoretical though, never had an issue with that either, that's why I use the distilled water. Shouldn't cause any splotches. Just a final wash for good measure, tightening the entire plane of the little cone uniformly

Thanks Joe for the detailed run down on the technique. I actually have 2 pairs of LE-25's in this state, including a pair from a previous resto that I thought couldnt be salvaged. So I've got them both out of their cabinets. Will give this a go. Thanks again.

[broownjake]

I would definitely pass and buy new ones.. I don't know, I think these things are the time waste and there are much better sound quality there.. Unless you want to sell and get more money for them - them it would be fare.

[Goldjazz]

I would definitely pass and buy new ones.. I don't know, I think these things are the time waste and there are much better sound quality there.. Unless you want to sell and get more money for them - them it would be fare.

No I'm not fixing these up to flip them, they're a gift for a friend. 4311s are by no means the perfect speaker there are certainly better jbls. To my ears they are enjoyable. I enjoy listening to music on them, particularly 70s rock. I think 4311s are an iconic and important speaker. I think they should be preserved, restored and enjoyed. My intent behind the question of this thread is not are 4311s a good enough speaker to warrant effort into restoring them, it was more can this particular pair be salvaged or not. Anyway I've gone ahead with fixing them up and they're looking good Welcome to the forum.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

Also has anyone every successfully cleaned grubby woofer such as these?

Yes, use hydrogen peroxide
You can even do a first pass with some very warm distilled water and a few drops of Dawn dish soap if you have that in Australia, but it is not a requisite, just will speed things along if the stains are in fact water soluble
I do not recommend or use any others, so if you don't have Dawn proceed at your own risk
You can't make them any worse, it's just that I know how Dawn reacts and behaves
Use only the original formula, the blue type, it will say so on the label
Be gentle and patient
May take several applications, same as with your teeth
Assuming the stains are of a water soluble or organic variety
Works great on old cigarette scum
Go damp, good and damp, but not sopping wet and you will be amazed
Soft cloth or a very malleable, mashable sponge and just wipe them down carefully making certain to get it on the heavily stained areas well
Rinse the soiled cloth or sponge at the sink regularly so you're not just smearing things around
Air dry between coats, avoid hair dryers as heat can help set stains and make them even worse

If not, if they're just too bad between the dirt and the repairs, then use the Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 primer as a last result, but the results will be guaranteed and excellent

Hydrogen peroxide is some amazing stuff, use the same solution, 3%, like you buy for the medicine cabinet

If you can get a stronger mix in Australia then so much the better

Once they are all white again, gently wipe down the Aquaplas with distilled water

Damp damp damp but not wet and only one pass at the time, you don't want to get the cone anywhere close to saturated, just a topical cleaning

Another technique I have used successfully is to give them a couple of good wipe downs and then mask off or cover the dust cap and surround and LIGHTLY mist them with straight hydrogen peroxide
LIGHTLY!
Allow to dry between every application, it may take a few
The misting application reduces having to actually rub on the cones so much, the bleaching properties of the hydrogen peroxide do not require mechanical cleaning

The amount of wiping you can or should do will be influenced greatly by the specific texture of your Aquaplas, as you know, some of those cones are very smooth and on some the coating is very textured or rough

If yours have a rough texture then you will be doing more of a damp "patting" then wiping. The rough ones are also excellent candidates to consider for the misting approach

Sounds like a lot of work but it's not, the lion's share of it is waiting for things to dry well between treatments

Just go easy, be gentle and use common sense

Maybe you can get a nice dry day to help things along

[Goldjazz]

Great detailed instructions Joseph. Thank you. Will give this a go amd document before and after. Thank you