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Thread: How many here own a JBL speaker less than 5 years old?

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    How many here own a JBL speaker less than 5 years old?

    I notice comparatively little forum discussion about new JBL models but lots of discussion about vintage JBL models and DIY projects. While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL. You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

    So how many here own a JBL speaker purchased new that is less than 5 years old? What model (or models) is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpw View Post
    I notice comparatively little forum discussion about new JBL models but lots of discussion about vintage JBL models and DIY projects. While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL. You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

    So how many here own a JBL speaker purchased new that is less than 5 years old? What model (or models) is it?
    Take a look at the name of this site:
    Lansing H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E
    As for this statement?:
    Quote Originally Posted by jpw View Post
    While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL.
    And how do you know that?

    I would be willing to bet (in fact, I know) that driver sales, both as an OEM/OES supplier and as a retailer to "consumers" played a very significant part in building JBL into the icon it (once was) and did so for decades. Make a trip to the Library and read up on the history of the company.

    As for the profitabilty/need for continued product support? Think about all of the professional installations based on JBL product, all over the Planet and then remember that for a good long while the "consumers" got a lot, if not all, of those same drivers in their ready made, plug and play consumer "audio" systems versions....................just with different model numbers

    How do you know what activities JBL conducted that were profitable and what activities weren't? Maybe it is not a matter of how "much if any" rather a matter of revenue MARGINS, as in "how much"? What is an acceptable margin (assuming it's in the black) is a matter of perspective and part of a company's mission philosophy. Just maybe that philosophy has changed? You think that MIGHT be a possibility?

    Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, long term, now is it? And that too is "just an economic fact"

    As for this remark? Why can't "we"? Who would you suggest "we" blame if not "JBL" (the business/current ownership side)? And again, how do YOU know?:
    Quote Originally Posted by jpw View Post
    You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.
    You cannot make a judgment call on what sales MIGHT be if a product for all practical purposes only exists in a catalog or in another market (or country)

    JBL supported product for years, it very well may have been at times a break even proposition or possibly at a loss, but it's a big part of what made them a successful (and exceptional) company, and a hell of a lot more productive as far as return on investment than any marketing or advertising with regards to insuring brand loyalty, repeat sales and new customers

    Amazing how fast a good reputation could spread, even without the internet

    JBL product support was a Gold Standard and served their reputation and sales well, not to mention, and I am certainly sure, it didn't hurt their near omnipresent success for a few decades in the "pro" fields" either, where both excellent, reliable service is second only to performance

    What is happening today is a "reinvention" of what the company and it's goals originally were and that is the only "fact": that "fact" is reflected with it's moves towards the new trends in product and marketing

    It is the abandoning of one vision and the adoption of something new, reacting to the loss of the once ubiquitous "stereo store", in practically every town of any size in America giving way to the rise of the mail order economy: small compact product, all built to price points and intended for a very finite service life............in other words, the world of use it until you use it up and throw it away AND possessing an ENORMOUS profit MARGIN

    99.9% of all the L100s, L96s, L112s etc were all purchased from brick and mortar outlets...............well, those days are all but gone, I understand that.............but I also understand that there is a void that could have been filled. That is (one big) reason why Japan is still getting the lion's share of the good stuff

    I make one concession: it IS difficult to sell, on an industrial scale, profitably, loudspeaker systems like the L112 (a size and weight example) if you have to do so via the new world order's e-commerce outlets

    That's the one modicum of a "break" I have to give "them": who's going to sell the goods? More importantly, where and how?
    The "Circuit City"s of the world are dying out/have died like flies

    Things change, I recognize that; JBL's current state is hardly unique..........but there is also a famous line/truth: "you don't know what you've got until you lose it" (OR, piss it away)
    This can easily apply (should be considered) by an idiot CEO or owner as well

    It's reactionary versus proactive and it is sad

    But I maintain that JBL could STILL BE THE LEADER and remain extant as a company more like what made them great in the first place, if led by someone or someones with a little vision and the ability to adjust to the changes in the ways in which goods are sold and delivered (another story and a matter more of conditioning the buying public to happily accept mediocrity than anything else), a forest instead of a trees person, IF profit MARGINS wasn't the primary concern as it obviously is today.

    They could also remain a company built on integrity and quality and not forgetting those who brought them to the dance in the first place with a reexamination of their values. But hey, it is an iPod world after all!

    What remains to be seen will be the outcome of this in 5 or 10 years (and then you can meaningfully compare how well they service and take care of you with regards to the products you are asking about now: come back here and tell any of us still alive how great it all went)

    The product that the majority can afford. The L20T owners of the world. It's not trust worthy on any level. It's an insult...........goin' out to Costco and get me some of them JBLs................it's a sad day

    And the "high end" stuff? The designs that actually share the lineage? Well, just look at how they deal with that, parsing it out (building reluctantly) to the Japanese market, the models still around but that MOST people cannot afford.................marketing, with some implication of nonexistent "trickle down" to the black chinese crap wearing a cheap JBL badge at Best Buy.............the stuff you can't service even if you wanted to..........and now, they send the guy's who built those masterpieces to the unemployment line

    So, what's that tell you about their future intent?

    That's why I don't care about or discuss most of the current "product", note "most".

    I should have asked you what price point/range/product line, specifically, you had in mind, because today there is basically (2 and 1/2) as far as I can tell

    You can delete one of these: you'd didn't need to post this twice

    Thomas

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    Senior Member Ed Zeppeli's Avatar
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    I have some LSR305s recently purchased.
    DIY Array, 2242 sub, 4408, 4208, Control 8SR, E120 Guitar cab, Control 1, LSR305.

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    Own JBL LSR6332s bought a year and a half ago. My reference standards. IMO these are very accurate reproducers. They don't seem to get much love by the sound system folks. Although I think they are the evolution of the L100, IMO again. People looking for a really good video monitor should take a listen. In my room they are fairly flat to 25 Hz. That is by measurement. For the price they are a steal. Especially when you consider the LSR32s can be had used for $600 or $700 a pair. No need for a center channel with these guys.

    Regards,

    John

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    Wagner touches on a point that's bothered me for some time - JBL didn't sell many of their products in the US until quite recently, and I think even now some are still not offered here. Why they thought it was a good idea to exclude a market the size of the US confounds me, but then I don't make $20 million a year.

    That said, I own a couple of different current (or were current within 5 years) offerings.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Take a look at the name of this site:
    Lansing H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E
    As for this statement?:

    And how do you know that?

    I would be willing to bet (in fact, I know) that driver sales, both as an OEM/OES supplier and as a retailer to "consumers" played a very significant part in building JBL into the icon it (once was) and did so for decades. Make a trip to the Library and read up on the history of the company.

    As for the profitabilty/need for continued product support? Think about all of the professional installations based on JBL product, all over the Planet and then remember that for a good long while the "consumers" got a lot, if not all, of those same drivers in their ready made, plug and play consumer "audio" systems versions....................just with different model numbers

    How do you know what activities JBL conducted that were profitable and what activities weren't? Maybe it is not a matter of how "much if any" rather a matter of revenue MARGINS, as in "how much"? What is an acceptable margin (assuming it's in the black) is a matter of perspective and part of a company's mission philosophy. Just maybe that philosophy has changed? You think that MIGHT be a possibility?

    Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, long term, now is it? And that too is "just an economic fact"

    As for this remark? Why can't "we"? Who would you suggest "we" blame if not "JBL" (the business/current ownership side)? And again, how do YOU know?:


    You cannot make a judgment call on what sales MIGHT be if a product for all practical purposes only exists in a catalog or in another market (or country)

    JBL supported product for years, it very well may have been at times a break even proposition or even at a loss, but it's a big part of what made them a successful (and exceptional) company, and a hell of a lot more productive as far as return on investment than any marketing or advertising with regards to insuring brand loyalty, repeat sales and new customers

    JBL product support was a Gold Standard and served their reputation and sales well, not to mention, and I am certainly sure, it didn't hurt their near omnipresent success for a few decades in the "pro" fields" either, where both excellent, reliable service is second only to performance

    What is happening today is a "reinvention" of what the company and it's goals originally were and that is the only "fact": that "fact" is reflected with it's moves towards the new trends in product and marketing

    It is the abandoning of one vision and the adoption of something new

    Things change, I recognize that; JBL's current state is hardly unique..........but there is also a famous line/truth: "you don't know what you've got until you lose it" (OR, piss it away)
    This can easily apply (should be considered) by an idiot CEO or owner as well

    What remains to be seen will be the outcome of this in 5 or 10 years (and then you can meaningfully compare how well they service and take care of you with regards to the products you are asking about now: come back here and tell any of us still alive how great it all went)

    You can delete one of these: you'd din't need to post this twice

    Thomas
    Totally agree!

  7. #7
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    I have 4365, 4429 and LSR305, all under 5 years of age.

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    Senior Member christo's Avatar
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    I have a set of K2 s9900 and a pair of 1500 Array.

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    Wagner and Challenger604. Neither of you answered the simple question in the post. Have you purchased a JBL speaker new within the last 5 years and what model (or models) is it?

    Regarding your reply and agreement respectively, Heritage website name notwithstanding, a lot of griping is done here about what JBL is or isn't doing TODAY.

    I know from 40 plus years of involvement in audio as a dealer, having regular contact with both customers and vendors, that consumer (non pro) part sales are today a tiny fraction of sales compared to completed speaker packages. Like it or not consumer speaker companies can not survive if people don't buy their latest efforts.

    It's true that JBL has made a lot of marketing mistakes including not offering their better product in the US until more recently, but many better models have now been available here for well over five years. Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

    So enjoy your vintage JBL speakers as I have, and build your DIY JBL speakers as I have. Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Hallo!

    I had 4319 and replaced it with 4429. I also have 4365. Bought all new!

  11. #11
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    I owned a pair of LS40's for about half a year. They are nice speakers for their size and price, but after half a year i had to make room for my K2 lookalikes. 7" woofers just doesnt do it for me

    I also owned a pair or LSR4328 and LSR4312 subwoofer for about a year, but that was more than 5 years ago. Very nice set for its price point.
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

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    The Greg Timbers connection............Surprise! Surprise!

    "Mass market" products, what in the hell is that supposed to mean!?

    I heard, and was very impressed, with a pair of the "Studio Series" when they first came out

    I was very interested in what was at the time the top model, the "S412" I believe it was?

    Wanted them for a sort of all in one living room system for both TeeVee sound and music

    And of course it was a mail order/special order only option (I heard the pair I heard in another state)

    No one within driving distance had a pair on the floor or in stock so I passed

    The speaker was wonderful and cheap (price wise) although it did have too much of a plastic look for my taste

    Still, I sometimes regret not grabbing a pair when they were new; worked extremely well with a tube amp

    But even those don't fit the criteria of this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I have a pair of 1500AL-1 woofers, but I had to buy them out of the back of a van in an alley on the lower east side.

    These were the guys. Despite the disguises I'm pretty sure they were the Harman ceo and director of marketing for North America.


    Oh, and some fresh 2421B diaphragms.

    They came true my friend who have help me to get some of the parts and get them ready for shipping to Iceland
    I hope at you enjoy them


    Ari

  14. #14
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    It was a joke, Ari, pointing to the fact that many of us are component guys and can't buy them. I enjoy them a great deal. How would I not?--they are incredible. I pulled my post. Please pull your copy. Thanks.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    I have a pair of 1500AL-1 woofers, but I had to buy them out of the back of a van in an alley on the lower east side.

    These were the guys. Despite the disguises I'm pretty sure they were the Harman ceo and director of marketing for North America.


    Oh, and some fresh 2421B diaphragms.
    Lower East, as in Tokyo right?
    Apples and oranges
    I never said JBL stopped knowing how to build a speaker if they wanted to

    Judging by current conduct, the question should be will they be able to repeat that performance in the not so distant future? (in house)

    My comments were about (not) protecting a H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E that was enjoyed by thousands for decades and at every price point and consumers STILL enjoying the same high quality of build and service even with the entry models

    And of a company that knew how to at least treat it's key people with some respect
    THAT is what I was referring to

    Not everyone buys, or can afford, the Rolex models, not to mention the fact that that driver is close to 15 years old now, far far far from being "less than 5 years old" (thanks to the end of the glory days gang)

    But like I said, let's see how things are in 5 or 10 years

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