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Thread: Another sad day for JBL

  1. #46
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    Correction

    Wagner, thank you for correcting my spelling of "maquiladora"... it is good to be relaxed with one's friends and able to take criticism, and so be able to learn. In that spirit, when I reflect on who I want to be "hating on" or not, your comment to Gmarascort seems hasty, even in this emotionally charged thread. So I wondered about these sheeple and the withdrawal of educational and cultural supports, and diminishing share in the wealth, which might contribute to the condition you describe. If they don't hear live music, and cannot afford good music boxes, then who is to blame? Income inequality and denialism about the future are more trickle down than up from the sheeple. If someone equates MBA technique (expressed against our cultural American hero engineers) and "Corporate America" perhaps they might not be stupid. I suggest deeper listening, as well as careful spelling.

  2. #47
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I have no doubt Don and Steve have been watching events closely.

    It would be interesting if Don did a podcast interview with Greg and Jerry on the before and after the recent events and loaded a link in the Library.

  3. #48
    Senior Member LowPhreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    What a stupid remark..............if you need a target to "hate" on then try the sheeple with their voting and buying habits...........along with their THEIR "sad and disgusting" ignorance and gullibility

    No one (not many anyway) wants to think long term anymore and no one wants to pay the price of good stewardship, so there you have it

    A great deal of over analysis here and deep philosophical -this began long long ago, JBL simply was able to resist the inevitable longer than many

    It was and is the stupidity of the majority of Americans that is responsible for this decline in our manufacturing base-we have no else to blame but ourselves....................that and the "digital narcotic" that's rotting the brains of the current generation

    Thomas

    How bourgeois of you.

    I won't get started on ridiculous much of this post is.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Horn Fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badman View Post
    *Sigh*.

    QSC seems to be doing a fine business- maybe they would like a couple old-school bigbrains to get into a new space and refine existing?

    Funny you should mention QSC. QSC was contracted to build amplifiers for JBL some time ago. Harman industries tried to buy QSC, but Pat and Barry passed on the deal. That was when Harman bought Crown.

    If anyone had wondered why all of a sudden QCS began manufacturing light weight amplifiers, it is because the company hire the same guy Bob Carver hired to design his light weight amplifiers. Business makes strange bed fellows.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Horn Fanatic's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Ian Mackenzie;388578]Makes you wonder if a crowd funding would be the way to bring the authentic JBL brand back to life?

    "Something along the lines of Great Plains Audio."

    I agree, but GPA was started with Bill's money. TELEX was gracious enough the sell Bill tools, parts, and machinery to continue the ALTEC legacy. Bill also bought a noisy contraption that Jim Lansing built. The machine that stamps out compression driver diaphragms. That machine is still working after nearly 80 years. I used to hear it chugging away as I passed through the speaker department at ALTEC.

    "The other option might be for Greg and Jerry walk right up to TAD front door and finish what Bart started."

    Interesting concept. Unless TAD isn't hiring, the company would be foolish not to entertain the idea of taking Greg and Jerry on board.

  6. #51
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    Colleagues;

    I don't blame corporations, I blame supidthink and the kind of shortsightedness that is being taught at the finest ivy league business schools. In my different careers, I have worked for several corporations. Some good some not so good.
    It is always dictated from the top, and the top is run by people. After all, corporations are a legal fiction created by lawyers. I don't mean to get philosophical here, but there are those who would kill the goose to get to the golden eggs. And in my observation our present business practices seem to be going in that direction. I believe that even B&W are having their products built in China. That being said.........

    I can't help but believe that whomever is behind this stupidity is a small minded individual of envy and ambition who takes glee in ruining other peoples lives. What goes around comes around. Whomever is behind this will get theirs, and I hope that it will be soon.

    For now I will keep my L-20's 4410's and my ancient Altecs and lust for my acquisition of the LSR 6332, which I think Greg and Jerry had a hand in.
    Sawdust is my co-pilot

  7. #52
    Member Radley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post
    Funny you should mention QSC. QSC was contracted to build amplifiers for JBL some time ago. Harman industries tried to buy QSC, but Pat and Barry passed on the deal. That was when Harman bought Crown.

    If anyone had wondered why all of a sudden QCS began manufacturing light weight amplifiers, it is because the company hire the same guy Bob Carver hired to design his light weight amplifiers. Business makes strange bed fellows.

    QSC did make thousands of amplifiers for JBL (UREI). Sadly, most of QSC's products are now made in China.

    I remember a rep told me about being given a tour of the loudspeaker factory at Northridge. They had racks and racks of speakers being burned in and it was all being driven by the QSC/ Urei's, except when they got to the low frequency 15"s & 18"s. There they were using Crest 8001's.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlyons View Post
    your comment to Gmarascort seems hasty, even in this emotionally charged thread...........diminishing share in the wealth, which might contribute to the condition you describe...............Income inequality and denialism about the future are more trickle down than up from the sheeple.
    Nothing hasty about it friend, these trends started long long ago-started with our criminally inept business dealings with the Japanese (which in that case, wiped out the lion's share of our once prolific and cutting edge Audio industry)

    Speakers only survived here as well as they did thanks in large part to the enormous costs of shipping and our (at the time) seemingly endless supply of timber; if large speakers SYSTEMS could have been shipped cheaply, in competitive quantity I think the Japs would have probably wiped out JBL long ago (think the power and resources of a Pioneer, and off shoot divisions like TAD as well as engineering behemoths like SONY), even before Mr. Timbers was a part of the JBL scene (and great success)

    I am NOT comparing the Jap speaker "industry" to ours or JBL in particular, only the history of it's development or lack thereof (as for market share). I AM saying that they certainly had and still have the resources, both financially and intellectually, to give us a run for our money. It was only distance and other logistical factors that kept them from wiping us out on that one as well.

    There is NO SUCH THING as "income inequality" except in the minds of Marxists (imaginary, a rallying cry for the useless and lazy) and those suffering at the hands of socialists or fascists (which in this case is not imaginary but real as extreme "progressives" will ultimately and always subjugate the sheeple, witness Cuba (and now we're skirting too closely to politics so this will stop here)

    IT IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME in a small "r" republic; the sooner people realize this the better off we all will be

    You must be very young judging from your reliance on such stale socialist buzz words and cliches............and the fact that you missed my point entirely

    And lastly, what people are or are not buying (and what freedoms, options and choices they are willing to forgo), whether it's ears buds or red communism is ALL a product of marketing, i.e.: salesmanship

    But there is one inarguable truth with all of the above, people who really know how to THINK won't buy into any of the but will and do ultimately suffer as a result of it................can you say NAFTA boys and girls?

    I know Jane can

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Colleagues;

    I don't blame corporations, I blame supidthink and the kind of shortsightedness that is being taught at the finest ivy league business schools. In my different careers, I have worked for several corporations. Some good some not so good.
    It is always dictated from the top, and the top is run by people. After all, corporations are a legal fiction created by lawyers. I don't mean to get philosophical here, but there are those who would kill the goose to get to the golden eggs. And in my observation our present business practices seem to be going in that direction. I believe that even B&W are having their products built in China. That being said.........

    I can't help but believe that whomever is behind this stupidity is a small minded individual of envy and ambition who takes glee in ruining other peoples lives. What goes around comes around. Whomever is behind this will get theirs, and I hope that it will be soon.

    For now I will keep I will keep my L-20's 4410's and my ancient Altecs and lust for my acquisition of the LSR 6332, which I think Greg and Jerry had a hand in.
    Absolutely!!!

    EXCEPT, I think the "small minded individual of envy and ambition", although possibly guilty of what you suggest, is in all likelihood more interested in making as much money for himself as he possibly can while saying "F you" to everyone else and the rest of the world to boot.
    You hit the nail right on the head, and it's funny, the goose that laid the golden eggs popped into my head just as soon as this thread got going (while reading some of the pontificating on the great philosophical dilemmas and "social" struggles against all of this "inequality" of our times )

    Thanks for having a good common sense mind, everything in this world doesn't have to be the result of some ideological struggle between the forces of good and evil........................sometimes things are simply the result of greedy douche bags f'ing folks over for their own personal gain..........that, and laziness, stupidity and the addiction to instant gratification (and wanting it all for "free" or as close to it ass possible)

    Best regards,
    Thomas Wagner

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Thanks for taking one of the most profound and serious threads in recent history . . . right down the rabbit hole.

    I just hope we don't scare Greg away from our forum. I truly appreciate his contributions here.


    Now back to your regularly scheduled drama . . .

    My thoughts exactly. I even came very close to posting the same, but wanted to avoid kicking the hornet's nest.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I even came very close to posting the same, but wanted to avoid kicking the hornet's nest.
    I think (in fact I am sure of it) that both of you either do not or cannot understand my posts.......................they are absolutely relevant to the topic......................the death of American manufacturing

    If you want to whimper about me, do it via PM and spare us all self-important, conscience of the forum lectures

    Again, your whining is very tiresome

    Thomas

  12. #57
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtimbers View Post
    JBL (Harman Luxury) laid off 3 more employees yesterday. Their seniority totaled over 70 years. The big hit was Jerry Moro. Jerry's work is legendary and his transducers have been featured in most of my designs for years. He also has done transducers for Revel, JBL automotive product, some really fine subs used by Synthesis and JBL Pro just to name a few of his many, many accomplishments over the years. His latest products, not yet to market, are a pair of stunning in wall systems using a compression driver and horn. They still fit into a standard 4" wall. I worked with him on these products a bit before my demise. They are absolutely outstanding.

    So this brings an end to any world class engineers at JBL. Jerry and I were the last two. There are only 3 guys left and although they are competent, they are no where near the knowledge, success or capability of what they just dumped. The senior Model maker left last week to go elsewhere which means that Consumer no longer has any model making capabilities, either.

    It appears that this is the end for JBL was we have known it. The Lab equipment is in total disarray with much of it not working properly. If it weren't for Professional's need for and use of the lab, I doubt that it would function at all. There will be no more internal transducer development, no world class engineers, no more internal model making capabilities and no more real JBL product. It is just going to be me-too product copied from somebody else and designed and manufactured in China or equivalent.

    Hold on to your Vintage products and hope that you can find a way to get parts when things wear out. None of this will involve Harman any longer!
    Thank you.

    Thank you for all your years of service to our hobby and passion and thank you for keeping us abreast of what is going on at JBL.

    Tragically I'm afraid you're right that this is very likely the end of JBL as a design and quality leader. Mr. Paliwal has honestly told us and the shareholders of Harman exactly what his plans are. They may increase profits in the short term, but ultimately it will take these industry leading companies that Sidney Harman assembled over a lifetime and turn them into producers of lackluster commodities. While it makes me sick, I find solace in the amazing JBL systems that I am privileged to own and enjoy.


    Widget

  13. #58
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Thank you.

    Thank you for all your years of service to our hobby and passion and thank you for keeping us abreast of what is going on at JBL.

    Tragically I'm afraid you're right that this is very likely the end of JBL as a design and quality leader. Mr. Paliwal has honestly told us and the shareholders of Harman exactly what his plans are. They may increase profits in the short term, but ultimately it will take these industry leading companies that Sidney Harman assembled over a lifetime and turn them into lackluster commodities. While it makes me sick, I find solace in the amazing JBL systems that I am privileged to own and enjoy.


    Widget

    I would also like to echo Widget's statement here.

    While we may not get to enjoy any further high quality designs from this once held in high esteem company, I will in fact continue to enjoy some of Greg's finest designs and Jerry's finest drivers for quite some time to come. At least I will know the effort and pride that had driven these designs to the final detail so that we could enjoy the hobby that we all love.

    Thanks to all those that have worked tirelessly to bring us such wonderful products and may you find happiness in any future en devours that you seek. My Thoughts, Prayers and Thanks go out to you.

    Shane
    Always fun learning more.......

  14. #59
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    26 years and see ya.

    It's pretty cool that many here see engineers as heros of sorts. It's been my experience that up in "cooperate" engineers are often thought of as tools like calculators to the effect that if you need one, you hire one and when your done, down the road they go.

    I haven't looked back but how long have the 2226, 2446, 2450 and the like been "current" products? Several years ago some pretty major improvements have yielded a new family of drivers that will possibly be "current" for 20-30 years. I can see the argument where someone says "Hey we can ride these horses as long as anyone of us will be here". When we need enginerring we'll just grab some new talent.

    Good luck with that.

    One other thought if I may:

    America became THE manufacturing super power after WWII, largly impart because the rest of the worlds manufacturing facilities lay in absolute ruin. Remember we were the only manufacturing nation who by great fortune, the battle front never came home save Pearl Harbor.

    By the end of the war, we were the only manufacturing country still operable and we were in high gear in support of our military. This placed us in the very enviable position where the entire world was our market, all of it. We ran like we owned the world for 30 plus years before there seemed to be any possibility that we could ever not hold that position. That was a bubble. We are now in a position where we have to fight for our share of the pie, and we are just re-learning how.

    Like it or not, for the record I don't, the way we do/ have done things are changing. I want my GM economy back, that was home. This new way is very foreign to me. Maybe it's true, you can never go home.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  15. #60
    Member Alobar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    26 years and see ya.

    It's pretty cool that many here see engineers as heros of sorts. It's been my experience that up in "cooperate" engineers are often thought of as tools like calculators to the effect that if you need one, you hire one and when your done, down the road they go.

    I haven't looked back but how long have the 2226, 2446, 2450 and the like been "current" products? Several years ago some pretty major improvements have yielded a new family of drivers that will possibly be "current" for 20-30 years. I can see the argument where someone says "Hey we can ride these horses as long as anyone of us will be here". When we need enginerring we'll just grab some new talent.

    Good luck with that.

    One other thought if I may:

    America became THE manufacturing super power after WWII, largly impart because the rest of the worlds manufacturing facilities lay in absolute ruin. Remember we were the only manufacturing nation who by great fortune, the battle front never came home save Pearl Harbor.

    By the end of the war, we were the only manufacturing country still operable and we were in high gear in support of our military. This placed us in the very enviable position where the entire world was our market, all of it. We ran like we owned the world for 30 plus years before there seemed to be any possibility that we could ever not hold that position. That was a bubble. We are now in a position where we have to fight for our share of the pie, and we are just re-learning how.

    Like it or not, for the record I don't, the way we do/ have done things are changing. I want my GM economy back, that was home. This new way is very foreign to me. Maybe it's true, you can never go home.

    Barry.
    Wonderfully stated!
    L200's biamped with 2216Nd1 LF, and 077's added

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