Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Electronic Crossover for L300

  1. #1
    Junior Member rbnjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    mukilteo wa
    Posts
    27

    Electronic Crossover for L300

    Are there any recommendations on equipment that would best match the L300 summit speaker?
    no budget constraints.

    thank you.

  2. #2
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,577
    Something to be aware of: In the 4333a, which was factory wired biampable, the signal shaping and frequency division elements of the high pass were left in the circuit when switched to biamp mode. Also the zobel was left across the woofer. These were done because both were necessary to achieving the design goal frequency response of the system as a whole. Therefore the external crossover only needed to provide low pass at 800Hz. As I recall, the L300 was not built biampable. The answer to your question depends in part on what modifications you have made to make yours biampable.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  3. #3
    Junior Member rbnjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    mukilteo wa
    Posts
    27

    L300

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    Something to be aware of: In the 4333a, which was factory wired biampable, the signal shaping and frequency division elements of the high pass were left in the circuit when switched to biamp mode. Also the zobel was left across the woofer. These were done because both were necessary to achieving the design goal frequency response of the system as a whole. Therefore the external crossover only needed to provide low pass at 800Hz. As I recall, the L300 was not built biampable. The answer to your question depends in part on what modifications you have made to make yours biampable.
    as of this date i have not made any crossover mods to the L300. I wonder if the 4333a has similar design elements and the 4333a crossover will be able to be used.

    thank you.

  4. #4
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,577
    It's the same speaker.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  5. #5
    Junior Member tonymontana168's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    3

    L300 crossover biamp with sub active

    Hello I have original L300 with nelson pass xo but only for the highs. for the sub I am active. I have 2 amps. I have 2 outputs on my preamp!
    1 output goes to active crossover that has a 24db slope!
    2nd output goes to the nelson pass passive xo and does to mid and tweeter.

    BUT BUT... I think the nelson pass is 12db octave and my electronic active crossover is 24db oct.

    Is that bad? should I be using my second output on my preamp?
    Should I cross my active crossover at 1200hz? 800hz? Im really lost. It sounds good but not like it used to with original xo and active at 800hz.

    Should I cross it at 1200hz now? should I get another active xo that has -12db oct slope?
    I take mesurements but many people say they are not accurate here is the pic of high low and full range frequencys
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,982
    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana168 View Post
    Im really lost.
    I see that.

    Oh, welcome to the Lansing Heritage Forum!

    What you are trying to do requires a fair amount of knowledge, skill, and patience if you want it to sound better than stock. Do you still have the parts to return it to original? If you do, I’d suggest you get it back to stock and then you can take a measurement of the stock system at 6’ or so. It’s important that you carefully balance the mid and tweeter l-pads to make the system as flat as possible.

    If you still feel compelled to mess around with your speakers, keep this measurement as a baseline and have at it.

    Regarding your question about slopes and crossover frequency, in some ways there is no wrong answer as long as you don’t damage anything and you like the results. I would try to get it to work with a 800Hz crossover frequency. Also if you hear highs coming from the woofer at an appreciable level, you’ve likely hooked up something incorrectly.


    Widget

  7. #7
    Junior Member rbnjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    mukilteo wa
    Posts
    27

    L300 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    It's the same speaker.
    your reply indicates you do not have a clear image of my design concepts. other jbl speaker crossovers may work in the L300 and models with bi amped cross overs are the ones im looking for.

  8. #8
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    near Glasgow Scotland
    Posts
    1,999

    Here's my 2 cents worth

    I am of the opinion that while the L300 / 4333 is a great speaker in it's original form , with modern DSP crossovers etc it can rise to another level not attainable with passive
    networks.
    To get there forget about the old crossovers and trying to integrate them with electronic filtering. I can be done but it not an elegant solution

    You did mention in your original post the there were no price constraints , however
    I will give you a bobby basic line up that will do your job.

    DBX260

    stereo power amps x3

    6 core speaker cable

    protection caps for the MF and HF drivers. There is a little table published by JBL which I have. I'll post that later

    You know the x/o frequencies and slopes so you can copy that in the software of the X/O as a starting point.

    Simply put the x/o will give you LF MF and HF outputs that you then allocate to the power amps. You absolutely need to keep track of your hook ups TAKE NOTES !!

    In the L300 the mid horn driver as I recall is out of phase with the bass unit but you will not need to do that as the delay available in the x/o will allow you to do that digitally.

    From there on in it's a matter of getting the basics set up and running then you can start refining the system bu using measuring tools . The X/o has loads of EQ options
    that you will need to learn to get things dialed in properly. It will take you a while but straight out of the gate you will notice a significant improvement in dynamics , clarity , imaging etc . Almost as good as having you ears syringed

    Read this: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ding-The-Build

    I was able to lower the LF/MF crossover point to about 650Hz but I had provided for that with the bigger horn and a 2" driver. The 2235H is not really that well suited ti playing at 800Hz.

    Name:  PROTECTION CAPS.JPG
Views: 501
Size:  108.1 KB

    Name:  shimmer%20001.jpg
Views: 495
Size:  130.1 KB

  9. #9
    Junior Member tonymontana168's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    3

    Cool Finally I went Triamp!

    triamp is really amazing I just put caps for protection and wow what a difference it made so much clarity! I crossed at 800 and 8500@24db with the new 3Rd Gen sublime crossover. it's great at the price. the bass really slames and goes really deep. I am using my 3 McIntosh amps 2x mc2200 and 1x mc2120 for my 4x tweeters 077!
    I added 2 rear fire in 077 (ambience tweeters)
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Member Alobar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    89

    Triamp protection caps for LE85 and 077

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    I am of the opinion that while the L300 / 4333 is a great speaker in it's original form , with modern DSP crossovers etc it can rise to another level not attainable with passive
    networks.
    To get there forget about the old crossovers and trying to integrate them with electronic filtering. I can be done but it not an elegant solution

    You did mention in your original post the there were no price constraints , however
    I will give you a bobby basic line up that will do your job.

    DBX260

    stereo power amps x3

    6 core speaker cable

    protection caps for the MF and HF drivers. There is a little table published by JBL which I have. I'll post that later

    You know the x/o frequencies and slopes so you can copy that in the software of the X/O as a starting point.

    Simply put the x/o will give you LF MF and HF outputs that you then allocate to the power amps. You absolutely need to keep track of your hook ups TAKE NOTES !!

    In the L300 the mid horn driver as I recall is out of phase with the bass unit but you will not need to do that as the delay available in the x/o will allow you to do that digitally.

    From there on in it's a matter of getting the basics set up and running then you can start refining the system bu using measuring tools . The X/o has loads of EQ options
    that you will need to learn to get things dialed in properly. It will take you a while but straight out of the gate you will notice a significant improvement in dynamics , clarity , imaging etc . Almost as good as having you ears syringed

    Read this: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ding-The-Build

    I was able to lower the LF/MF crossover point to about 650Hz but I had provided for that with the bigger horn and a 2" driver. The 2235H is not really that well suited ti playing at 800Hz.
    Extremely timely post here! I am getting ready to order parts to fully triamp my L200A's (which have 077's added). My current setup is this:

    Running biamped with the LE85 (16 ohm Radian diaphragms) using the LX16a passive for the mid as protection. The 077 is currently using a 1uf cap and 8 ohm Lpad by itself, and the old LE15B's have been replaced with 2216Nd1's and they are running direct from a 170wpc power amp, crossed at 1150hz using a MiniDSP 2x4HD. The difference with biamping with the DSP and the 2216Nd1 has been nothing short of thrilling compared with the stock L200's..

    What I want now is to completely get rid of the LX16, and triamp these speakers. To that end I have on order a MiniDSP 4x10 HD, extra speaker wire etc. Where I am slightly stumped is the JBL ratings for nominal impedance. JBL literature says both the LE85 and the 2405 are 16 ohms. I am assuming the 077 is the same as the 2405, but I have read in different threads that the impedance for both these drivers actually run less than 16. Is there a definitive answer for this for the purpose of ordering protection caps as well as the recommended shunt resistors? Should I assume 16 ohm or go less for this purpose?

    I plan to keep the crossover point for the Low/Mid at around 1100-1150 as the 2216Nd1 seems very capable of playing that high and I really like the sound..
    Thanks for any advice on the caps!
    L200's biamped with 2216Nd1 LF, and 077's added

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Posts
    4,681
    Here'san ancient post of mine authored under fairly similar circumstances.

    I used both of Zilch's & Widgets previous impedance studies to illustrate the real impedance's ( to your question ).



    If you use the search function ( with Zilch as author ) & impedance as the word of interest , there are numerous graphs created by him show that impedance is a curve ( so one simply gets to make their choice of Frequency vs Impedance & then go from there ).

    An interesting post from Zilch comparing 6 le85's on 2307 horns





    PS; ( click the pic )


  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Posts
    4,681
    Well it occurs to me that you really just want a simple answer ( without the details as to why ).

    So, here it is .

    Use a 20 ohm parallel ( conjugate ) resistor across the le85.

    Insert inline a 52 uF cap between the amp and the driver/resistor combo.

    - ( going smaller than 52uF will detrimentally effect the FR response by attenuating it too much in the crossover region ).

    BTW; even 52uF attenuates the 1K region by 1.5db .


  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Posts
    4,681
    Here are the details as to why to use the above.
    - ( red shows the effects the suggested circuit ,,,,,, IOW> even 52uF doesn't leave the crossover area completely untouched )

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  14. #14
    Member Alobar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Well it occurs to me that you really just want a simple answer ( without the details as to why ).

    So, here it is .

    Use a 20 ohm parallel ( conjugate ) resistor across the le85.

    Insert inline a 52 uF cap between the amp the driver/resistor combo.

    - ( going smaller than 52uF will detrimentally effect the FR response by attenuating it too much in the crossover region ).

    BTW; even 52uF attenuates the 1K area by 1.5db .

    Thanks much Earl, that really was all I needed as most speaker specific details can go over my head pretty fast usually, and you guys have so much experience! That takes care of the LE85, so was wondering if you have any thoughts on the Cap/Resistor for the 2405/077? Want that crossover point to be around 7 or 8khz.
    L200's biamped with 2216Nd1 LF, and 077's added

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Posts
    4,681
    Quote Originally Posted by Alobar View Post
    Thanks much Earl, that really was all I needed as most speaker specific details can go over my head pretty fast usually, and you guys have so much experience! That takes care of the LE85, so was wondering if you have any thoughts on the Cap/Resistor for the 2405/077? Want that crossover point to be around 7 or 8khz.

    An XSim shows that a 6uF capacitor followed by a 20R resistor ( wired across the 077 ) is very effective ( at leaving the response mostly untouched but still protected from DC ).



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Electronic crossover questions - JBL L300
    By Crestwood23 in forum Electronic Crossovers
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-09-2013, 05:32 AM
  2. electronic crossover
    By MartinV56 in forum Electronic Crossovers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 09:29 AM
  3. Electronic Crossover for L300
    By karina in forum Electronic Crossovers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-19-2011, 01:46 PM
  4. Electronic Crossover
    By speakerdave in forum Electronic Crossovers
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-23-2011, 02:33 PM
  5. Crossover card for electronic crossover 4430
    By leif in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-11-2011, 06:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •