Amps for DIY M2

[Kalle]

I`m going för building a M2-clone or in style of I found the horns and modified plates second hand in Sweden. (what is the chance of that). The rest I will get from speaker exchange.

I have some serious problems of deciding what amps or DSP to use. I think I will go for BSS or crown because simplicity with presets. I have a alternative to a nice price from a friend to buy a Crown CTs 8200 with integrated BSS-dsp. But I`m not sure if it is powerfull enough. It is 8ch and the plan is to bridge four channels for the 2216nd`s. The 2216 is a 6ohm driver. The CTs is not specified fo loads under 8ohm bridged. It leaves 4-500RMS per channel bridged. http://www.crownaudio.com/media/wysi...nel_USP-CN.pdf

My other 3 times (at least) more expensive alternative is a Crown 4x3500.

I like to play loud some times.
Today I run 18" subs. I hope to not be needing any subs whith my M2`s. Therefore I`m unsure if the CTs 8200 will be enough.

Where is the limit in RMS set on DSP in the Crown HD amps? 1000rms?

Plan 3 could is to get the CTs and use it`s dsp for a bigger amp thru the cobranet.

Plan 4 external DSP and use my Lab.gruppen amps

Suggestions?

Best regards
Karl

[baldrick]

I've been considering the same my self, running CTS8200 on DIY M2.

My main concern is the BSS, I think it's the same DSP as used in the old iTech and therefor not in the same leauge as the newer DSP used in iTech HD. I know several that uses iTech in their hifi systems and they are great for sub use, but when used for mid or highs there are many that Works better.

I've finaly got my MiniDSP PWR-DSP amps to work properly and will be useing them on mine, running 2x700 into the JBLs. MiniDSP have also many standalone DSPs that should work good as DSP, but of course there are even better alternatives, but they are also more expensive. Hypex plateamps With DSP is also a nice and quite cheap unit, a friend replaced his iTech 4000 With Hypex PSC2.700d and was very happy, Hypex sounded better.

[bubbleboy76]

I can warmly recommend Hypex for amplification.
For dsp/software I am not so convinced though...

[baldrick]

He I was refering to found the DSP used in the Hypex plateamps sounded better than the iTech..... have no experince my self. But I do know that Hypex DLCP is VERY buggy

[bubbleboy76]

Crown, to me, seems to be noisy PA stuff.
I might be wrong though, never heard one.

[Kalle]

I think I will go for CTs 8200 or 3x cts 600.

Just ordered the rest of the parts from reconingspeakers.com Now there is no way back! First DIY M2 in Sweden?

BTW. For high WAF the boxes (and possibly the horns) will be white. High glossy s0500n...

/Karl

[johanwholst]

New Minidsp 2x4 HD is out with optical input and FIR filters
POS: Is there a sufficient amount of taps for the M2 filter?

https://minidsp.com/images/documents...r%20Manual.pdf

Regarding amps: I plan to use Anaview AMS1000 with a M2 clone. Have previously used AMS1000 on D2, and I really liked it. Currently using the amp on a 2225 in BR. cheap, cool, small and transparent little amps they are. Most likely powerful enough to blow the roof of your house in a home environment. Especially if using bridged configuration on 2216nd

[pos]

POS: Is there a sufficient amount of taps for the M2 filter?

I am afraid not.

4096 taps total at 96kHz, and max 2048 per channel.

At 96kHz the minimum-phase M2 setting require around 1024 taps for the highs, and 8192 taps for the lows.
A linear-phase version would require even more.

An hypothetical 48kHz version with a total of 8192 taps and 4096 max per channel would be closer.
At that sampling rate you would "only" need 512 taps for the highs and 4096 for the lows for the minimum-phase settings.
So you should be able to get close enough by chopping a few taps here and there, but most probably not enough for a linear-phase version.
Not sure a 48kHz version would allow 4096 max per channel though: this is not the case for the 48kHz version of the miniSHARC.

It is of course possible to do some of the EQ using the IIR biquads (like that high Q 21Hz EQ for the woofer, very difficult to handle for the FIR), and free enough FIR resources to do interesting stuff. Beware that these are proportional Q EQs as opposed to constant Q ones in the Crown. The google doc linked in my signature gives equivalent settings for both types of EQs.

Another point to consider: the 560 ohms output impedance could be a bit high for the unbuffered AMS1000.

[Kalle]

From what I heard/read the sound of the Crown itech HD is superb but that the fans are noisy. And expensive:o

[bubbleboy76]

Anaview modules seems to get good reviews.
It's much cooler going DIY, especially for a DIY speaker!

[Kalle]

Anaview modules seems to get good reviews.
It's much cooler going DIY, especially for a DIY speaker!

You have to consider that I am lazy I have tried som many diffrent speakers and amps so this time I don`t mind spending a little extra and hopefully the search is over. As long as my wife don`t get to know the price tag Honesty in a relationship is overrated...

[pos]

Try Boggit's nc500 implementations.
Cannot find the url of his website right now but he is a resident of the ncore thread on the diyaudio.com forum.
His nc500 offering is very cost effective (ie less expensive than building a nc400 based amplifier yourself), and the nc500 would be the perfect match for the 6 ohm load of the 2216nd.

[sebackman]

baldrick,

Just a comment on the CTS-series multi channel amp DSP statement.

I don't think that info is completely accurate. The CTS-series has a separate DSP card running dual SHARK DSP's just like in any BSS BLU series DSP (or Omnidrive), while the other older Crown amps do run Motorola DSP's. As do the older BSS 90XX Soundweb units.

I do have representatives from both generation DSP's but have not run an A/B test side by side with them. I can upload some pictures later. I even have a few extra new CTS DSP cards (monting kit), if anyone is interested.

However the main concern is not the DSP chip but the performance of the ADC and the algorithms used in the DSP FW. Since BSS is still using SHARK's in their units the FW can be updated, at least in the CTS units. Even the current BSS flagship DSP BLU800 uses dual SHARKS.

I may even argue that the CTS-series may have an upper hand in HiFi being a class AB amp and not a digital amp as the newer HD models. But I must confess that the HD models do get very good reviews all over.

Kind regards
//RoB

[baldrick]

Try Boggit's nc500 implementations.
Cannot find the url of his website right now but he is a resident of the ncore thread on the diyaudio.com forum.
His nc500 offering is very cost effective (ie less expensive than building a nc400 based amplifier yourself), and the nc500 would be the perfect match for the 6 ohm load of the 2216nd.

Haven't seen this before, but pretty nice pricing compared to DIY! http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!buy-hy...plifiers/j2iza

Not sure though if NC400 is powerful enough to take full potential from 2216ND, but probably powerful enough for most use.

[badman]

Try Boggit's nc500 implementations.
Cannot find the url of his website right now but he is a resident of the ncore thread on the diyaudio.com forum.
His nc500 offering is very cost effective (ie less expensive than building a nc400 based amplifier yourself), and the nc500 would be the perfect match for the 6 ohm load of the 2216nd.

Seconded. It won't be the most powerful amp ever but it's plenty for real-world and more importantly, NCore is a spectacularly good sounding technology- best I've used. My reference amps are NC400.