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Thread: Diy network 43xx

  1. #1
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    Diy network 43xx

    hi,
    im building a second system, for the my room in my humble apartment, its for a stereo console with will house tube equipment an
    a small 40" 4k, internal external switch,

    using tube preamps with an active equalizer would decrease the output the the pre stage, for the active network, devaluing my
    investment...

    i have listend to Jbl comparisons, with original stock studio monitor's an they revised and updated counter part, the output from he original
    networks, has always proved, for me just better from 200hz forward,

    id like to build a fiveway, cabinet, 2203/2121/2420/2440/2405, something like a 4351 with an added horn, to work out to in my living room. JK.

    in reading the schematics, and trying to understand better the 3114s i have and how to bring the networks up to the original form. would using
    borrowed, capacitors from say an n96, n110 or 3133, allow me to build originals, albeit without the original housing.

    for instance the 1.5uf, (53792) is this the caps number?
    my 3114 has 11 or 12 caps topside, is the 1.5uf (53792) cap shared i see its listed numerous times on the schematic.
    so i would only need to track down one of the caps correct, please excuse my ignorance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    3114 LF caps

    so to get started, I'm looking at the pdf for the 3114 and specifically the LF section.

    to get started the capactiors in the section are as follows :
    3.8mh (metal halide ) capacitor 55721
    72 mf (milli farad ) capacitor 52938
    20 MF milli or micro capacitor 53881
    10 ohm 10 watt ( resistor ) 34751
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    could someone check of the mf/MF milli or micro farad, & help me identify the
    equivalent JBL parts, not after market
    if you could help identify the networks with have equivalent parts it would help
    thank you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Hmm... re-google “mH and coil”

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    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bldozier View Post
    so to get started, I'm looking at the pdf for the 3114 and specifically the LF section.

    to get started the capactiors in the section are as follows :
    3.8mh (metal halide ) capacitor 55721
    72 mf (milli farad ) capacitor 52938
    20 MF milli or micro capacitor 53881
    10 ohm 10 watt ( resistor ) 34751
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    could someone check of the mf/MF milli or micro farad, & help me identify the
    equivalent JBL parts, not after market
    if you could help identify the networks with have equivalent parts it would help
    thank you.

    Hi,

    for sure MICRO, and usually denoted "uF", as milli would be too large
    regards
    ivica

  5. #5
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    so, i will continue my search.

    mh = metal halide coil. not capacitor. got it thanks
    uf = micro farad, however in JBL langue its referred to as
    mf/MF, any idea why the capitals are used, so to just be
    clear about everything, uf = mf...
    is this true?

    Does anyone have a picture of ACTUAL JBL Coils, Capacitors & Resistors ?
    55721,52938,34751

    DO ANY NETWORKS SHARE THESE PART REFERENCES.

  6. #6
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    You don't need the original parts, You even can't get them.

    Forget about the JBL part numbers.

    I think many of the JBL networks have been built (copied) by forum members. The easiest way ist to copy such a network and to use the parts list that comes with the design.

    So the challenge is how to build a capacitor with a specific value and not with a specific JBL part number.

    Ruediger

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    Quote Originally Posted by bldozier View Post
    so, i will continue my search.

    mh = metal halide coil. not capacitor. got it thanks


    I'm afraid you don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_(unit) mh is the rating, and does not describe the construction.

    Here is an excellent intro page: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/pr...nductor-1.html

    I personally think you are wasting your time until you learn some basic electronic and electrical skills. If you can't buy assembled components at this point I'd halt the effort.

  8. #8
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    your correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruediger View Post
    Forget about the JBL part numbers.

    I think many of the JBL networks have been built (copied) by forum members. The easiest way ist to copy such a network and to use the parts list that comes with the design.

    So the challenge is how to build a capacitor with a specific value and not with a specific JBL part number.

    Ruediger
    yes i just think if i can find an older non used network an use its parts to build another network its like to have it as a barometer.
    thank your sir for sharing.

    brian

  9. #9
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Its not a Metal Halide anything - its a coil, a choke, inductors, in other terms,
    So the units are Henrys - which are LARGE Units - (Like Farads for caps)
    most speaker crossover components are measured in milliHenrys ...

    As an FYI, generally, coils don't go bad.
    They are just a specific number of turns of wire on a open air (plastic) or metal winding form.
    Which one you use does make a difference!

    Caps can drift if they are 40 years old or so ...
    JBL often used tapped chokes - which were made to spec for their speakers/crossovers,
    and are near impossible to find.

    I NEVER sold my original crossovers when I built new ones, the (future) buyer might want the original parts,
    certainly so for valuable/rare speakers like studio monitors.

    You're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by bldozier View Post
    so, i will continue my search.

    mh = metal halide coil. not capacitor. got it thanks
    2ch: Oppo, Acurus RL-11, JBL 240ti, Heath AS101, Carver TFM-25,Von Schweikert VR4
    7: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460,

  10. #10
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by DES-1 View Post
    I'm afraid you don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_(unit) mh is the rating, and does not describe the construction.

    Here is an excellent intro page: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/pr...nductor-1.html

    I personally think you are wasting your time until you learn some basic electronic and electrical skills. If you can't buy assembled components at this point I'd halt the effort.
    ok so this is what i mean,
    mh is the rating not metal halide, even better. thanks.

    mh #blah = coil.

  11. #11
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    ok great heather,

    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Its not a Metal Halide anything - its a coil, a choke, inductors, in other terms,
    So the units are Henrys - which are LARGE Units - (Like Farads for caps)
    most audio circuit components are measured in milliHenrys ...

    Generally coils don't go bad.

    Caps can drift if they are 40 years old or so ...
    JBL often used tapped chokes - which were made to spec for their speakers/crossovers,
    and are near impossible to find.

    You're welcome.
    thanks!

  12. #12
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    core wrapping.

    can someone here please tell me why the coil is wrapped around the core. steel or iron.

  13. #13
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bldozier View Post
    can someone here please tell me why the coil is wrapped around the core. steel or iron.
    In really simple terms, speakers, audio, works with alternating current - its not DC.
    The voltage changes direction back and forth based on the frequency.
    Inductors (coils) work due to their magnetic effect - ferrous (Iron or steel) cores result in a stronger magnetic effect than open air coils.
    Most of the coils I used when building crossovers (for my 4333 and 4345 designs) did NOT have Metal cores.

    You also want to keep coils spaced away from each other when you build the circuit so the magnetic field of one does NOT affect the other.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor

    Gotta get back to my housework - cleaning up the plant room for winter!
    2ch: Oppo, Acurus RL-11, JBL 240ti, Heath AS101, Carver TFM-25,Von Schweikert VR4
    7: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bldozier View Post
    can someone here please tell me why the coil is wrapped around the core. steel or iron.

    From that source I listed: "When a coil is wound on a metal core (ferrite or iron) the inductance increases enormously. The resulting inductance will depend on the cross-section of the core, the length of the magnetic path and the type of material and a number of other factors." Inductors do not need to have a core and its common to have inductors 'air gapped'.

    http://www.encyclopedia-magnetica.com/doku.php/air_gap

    from this site: "Energy storing inductors

    Air gaps are an integral part of gapped inductors. The gap reduces effective permeability of a given magnetic circuit and allows storing much greater energy before saturation is reached. Increasing the gap reduces the inductance, so the winding must have more turns to compensate accordingly"

  15. #15
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    earring

    thank you. i understand it much more now.

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