Need help building a 4343/4350 or 4435(newbie-ish)

[Wagner]

But it looks like I will just have to do a lot more research, I was kinda hoping I could get a little help with that, maybe a well-known thread on the 4312b or a L100/L300 post. No free lunch though, I'll do some digging.

There are dozens and dozens
Some regarding the L300 should be close to the top and easy to find
(there's more than a few members currently working on or just finishing up L300s)
Just peruse the menu!

[Aculous]

There are dozens and dozens
Some regarding the L300 should be close to the top and easy to find
(there's more than a few members currently working on or just finishing up L300s)
Just peruse the menu!

To answer this and your last post, the reality for finding the correct drivers has led me down a different path. Its amazing the type of drivers that were in those speakers, hence why I want a set but I have not been able to find 1 much less two of each. I was looking and educating myself last night and found the 4343B to be a better candidate for me. The L100/L300 still being a possibility and more attainable...I found a couple sets online that I would just need to be reconed/remag'ed,

I even went so far last night in my searching to look for suitable replacements (for the 4343B), as in the 2231H bass driver is comparable to the 2235H. Couldn't find either on ebay or other forums (of course I didn't look hard enough here...stupid I know) so I looked for a modern day equivalent and came upon the AE Speakers TD15H which looked like it could work.

I would then still need the MF/HF/UHF drivers. The midrange is where 90% of the music is so finding the suitable replacement then would be extremely important, I started looking but haven't found the perfect choice.

However I am looking at BMS and TAD drivers as I think they could have favorable characteristics. I am still looking at modern JBL drivers that could fit the bill as well.

I think the horn is going to be the most problematic.


Which...leads me in a even different direction. Should I scrap the idea of a JBL clone as I would not be able to capture that magic in my own design, and instead just build my own design as a sincere form of flattery to the 4343B...most probably.

[speakerdave]

To answer this and your last post, the reality for finding the correct drivers has led me down a different path. Its amazing the type of drivers that were in those speakers, hence why I want a set but I have not been able to find 1 much less two of each. I was looking and educating myself last night and found the 4343B to be a better candidate for me. The L100/L300 still being a possibility and more attainable...I found a couple sets online that I would just need to be reconed/remag'ed,

I even went so far last night in my searching to look for suitable replacements (for the 4343B), as in the 2231H bass driver is comparable to the 2235H. Couldn't find either on ebay or other forums (of course I didn't look hard enough here...stupid I know) so I looked for a modern day equivalent and came upon the AE Speakers TD15H which looked like it could work.

I would then still need the MF/HF/UHF drivers. The midrange is where 90% of the music is so finding the suitable replacement then would be extremely important, I started looking but haven't found the perfect choice.

However I am looking at BMS and TAD drivers as I think they could have favorable characteristics. I am still looking at modern JBL drivers that could fit the bill as well.

I think the horn is going to be the most problematic.


Which...leads me in a even different direction. Should I scrap the idea of a JBL clone as I would not be able to capture that magic in my own design, and instead just build my own design as a sincere form of flattery to the 4343B...most probably.

I you seem to be all over the place on this. You are getting some good advice but your unvarying response is to rehash the same airy rap you started with. You don't seem to be actually comprehending what is being said to you, so I will try to bring you in for some kind of landing. Lansing Heritage forums is not a video game. Your unconsidered response to the help you've been offered IS IMPOLITE because it abuses the time and energy put into trying to answer your questions.

If you want to build a speaker you Must be able to complete the last step--the crossover. If you have training in audio frequency electronics equivalent to an engineering technician, have access to a room full of capacitors, resistors and inductors, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of test equipment and an anechoic chamber, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of software--all of these and several years of experience, you can design a crossover and therefore you can design a speaker system.

Barring that, there are only three possibilities. 1) Buy instead of building; 2) Make an exact copy of an existing system for which the parts are realistically available, or 3) Waste a lot of time and money throwing together an assemblage of random bits which is exceedingly unlikely ever to become a listenable speaker. Number one has already been recommended. Number three is not recommended.

That leaves number two. Under number two you must follow exactly the component selection, cabinet design, crossover schematic and crossover parts list of a speaker previously engineered by someone with the above qualifications, if you want predictable results. For legacy large format JBL monitors the possibilities are the following: 4355, 4345, 4344, possibly 4344 mk II, 4430, possibly the 4435, and the 4333. There are some earlier models which are really irrelevant at this point. You must follow the original or re-engineered component selections and crossovers exactly; you cannot make your own substitutions if you want to have satisfactory results.

If you really want the best speaker within this context follow the best advice available here; read the threads about the M2 and take about $2500 and go shopping at Speaker Exchange for M2 components. A passive crossover for that system has not yet been released, but you will not be alone in hoping that one soon will be. You should biamp, anyway.

If any of that sounds too grand, complicated and expensive for you, you are probably right. One last possibility, if you still aspire to enter the brotherhood of speaker builders is to go to madisound or parts express and buy and construct a series of speaker kits.

[Aculous]

I you seem to be all over the place on this. You are getting some good advice but your unvarying response is to rehash the same airy rap you started with. Your excessive chirpiness makes me wonder whether you are floating on a cloud of intoxicating combustion products. You don't seem to be actually comprehending what is being said to you, so I will try to bring you in for some kind of landing. Lansing Heritage forums is not a video game. Your unconsidered responses to the help you've been offered IS IMPOLITE because it abuses the time and energy put into trying to answer your questions.

If you want to build a speaker you need to start at the end--the crossover. If you have training in audio frequency electronics equivalent to an engineering technician, have access to a room full of capacitors, resistors and inductors, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of test equipment and an anechoic chamber, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of software--all of these and several years of experience, you can design a crossover and therefore you can design a speaker system.

Barring that, there are only three possibilities. 1) Buy instead of building; 2) Make an exact copy of an existing system for which the parts are realistically available, or 3) Waste a lot of time and money throwing together an assemblage of random bits which is exceedingly unlikely ever to become a listenable speaker. Number one has already been recommended. Number three is not recommended.

That leaves number two. Under number two you must follow exactly the component selection, cabinet design, crossover schematic and crossover parts list of a speaker previously engineered by someone with the above qualifications, if you want predictable results. For legacy large format JBL monitors the possibilities are the following: 4355, 4345, 4344, possibly 4344 mk II, 4430, possibly the 4435, and the 4333. There are some earlier models which are really irrelevant at this point. You must follow the original or re-engineered component selections and crossovers exactly; you cannot make your own substitutions if you want to have satisfactory results.

If you really want the best speaker within this context follow the best advice available here; read the threads about the M2 and take about $2500 and go shopping at Speaker Exchange for M2 components. A passive crossover for that system has not yet been released, but you will not be alone in hoping that one soon will be. You should biamp, anyway.

If any of that sounds too grand, complicated and expensive for you, you are probably right. One last possibility, if you still aspire to enter the brotherhood of speaker builders is to go to madisound or parts express and buy and construct a series of speaker kits.

The initial point is taken, thanks for the condescension since you don't know me at all I'll chock it up to your lack of interpersonal skills and basic ignorance. Those "airy products" you were alluding to are in fact nothing but genuine curiosity. I am merely someone who is interested in speaker building, specifically studio monitors at the moment. A subject which I have no previous experience. And it allows me to focus my mind on something fun and engaging...so you will see a byproduct in my posts...it may be seen as "happiness", I will make sure I tone that down as it apparently offended you.

I am taking the advice that is being given, and I even *gasp* am listening to you even though you make it sound like every post on this forum should be a design treatise. I will keep lurking and I will keep gathering what information I can and see what I think could be viable for my situation. This post turned from a "how do I" to a "what should I".

I have built 3 or 4 sets of speakers but nothing with pro audio drivers like the JBL units and nothing of the size of a 4300 series enclosure. I refurb'ed a set of Infinity SM82s but I don't have a lot of knowledge of rebuilding compression drivers at all and certainly not any JBL units. I have been messing with drivers that I bought for a bill fitzmaurice design and I have grabbed a couple on a buyout from foundtek that will be fun to play with in a line array. I look at Creative Sound Solutions, G/R Research, Geddes (less of a kit and more a design that you piece together), Linkwitz Labs, Menicus, Madisound, Parts Express and many others. I own a whole pile of audio stuff waiting to be put together.

All this is to once again say I am not new to DIY but I think your kit comment was more dismissive than actually offering anything of use.

Know that with no sarcasm in my voice, I am actually taking what you say to heart, but with a grain of salt. Amazingly there are people out there that comprehend even what the the GREAT DAVE bestows upon us.

[speakerdave]

The initial point is taken, thanks for the condescension since you don't know me at all I'll chock it up to your lack of interpersonal skills and basic ignorance. Those "airy products" you were alluding to are in fact nothing but genuine curiosity. I am merely someone who is interested in speaker building, specifically studio monitors at the moment. A subject which I have no previous experience. And it allows me to focus my mind on something fun and engaging...so you will see a byproduct in my posts...it may be seen as "happiness", I will make sure I tone that down as it apparently offended you.

I am taking the advice that is being given, and I even *gasp* am listening to you even though you make it sound like every post on this forum should be a design treatise. I will keep lurking and I will keep gathering what information I can and see what I think could be viable for my situation. This post turned from a "how do I" to a "what should I".

I have built 3 or 4 sets of speakers but nothing with pro audio drivers like the JBL units and nothing of the size of a 4300 series enclosure. I refurb'ed a set of Infinity SM82s but I don't have a lot of knowledge of rebuilding compression drivers at all and certainly not any JBL units. I have been messing with drivers that I bought for a bill fitzmaurice design and I have grabbed a couple on a buyout from foundtek that will be fun to play with in a line array. I look at Creative Sound Solutions, G/R Research, Geddes (less of a kit and more a design that you piece together), Linkwitz Labs, Menicus, Madisound, Parts Express and many others. I own a whole pile of audio stuff waiting to be put together.

All this is to once again say I am not new to DIY but I think your kit comment was more dismissive than actually offering anything of use.

Know that with no sarcasm in my voice, I am actually taking what you say to heart, but with a grain of salt. Amazingly there are people out there that comprehend even what the the GREAT DAVE bestows upon us.

Note that I have already edited out the worst of my comments and made other refinements to my language for clarity.

The speaker kit suggestion was in earnest as a good way to get started and perhaps to cook that seed.

There's a lot of reading to be done here. That could be a beneficial next step.

Try to get focused on one project.

Component hunts can take a while. A casual perusal of Internet offerings of the moment is not serious.

How was the landing?

THE GREAT DAVE

[Aculous]

Note that I have already edited out the worst of my comments.

The speaker kit suggestion was in earnest as a good way to get started and perhaps to cook that seed.

There's a lot of reading to be done here. That could be a beneficial next step.

Try to get focused on one project.

Component hunts can take a while. A casual perusal of Internet offerings of the moment is not serious.

How was the landing?

THE GREAT DAVE

Needs an exclamation point at the end of Dave but I guess it works.

More of a information induced haze that I am working out, focus hence being the issue. I am still working on that. I found a couple of 4312MKIIs on ebay but I am guessing they are not "new in box" as they claim.

Grabbing a pair will allow me to audition them, also had some offers from some others on the forum so I think I may take them up on it before I plunge into a earnest parts gathering. Your option 2 is memory serves.

[speakerdave]

Needs an exclamation point at the end of Dave but I guess it works.

More of a information induced haze that I am working out, focus hence being the issue. I am still working on that. I found a couple of 4312MKIIs on ebay but I am guessing they are not "new in box" as they claim.

Grabbing a pair will allow me to audition them, also had some offers from some others on the forum so I think I may take them up on it before I plunge into a earnest parts gathering. Your option 2 is memory serves.

Most excellent.

[Wagner]

Most excellent.

You are too kind (and patient, saintly so, especially when your efforts are not warranted, appreciated or being listened to)

Thomas

[gasfan]

I you seem to be all over the place on this. You are getting some good advice but your unvarying response is to rehash the same airy rap you started with. You don't seem to be actually comprehending what is being said to you, so I will try to bring you in for some kind of landing. Lansing Heritage forums is not a video game. Your unconsidered response to the help you've been offered IS IMPOLITE because it abuses the time and energy put into trying to answer your questions.

If you want to build a speaker you Must be able to complete the last step--the crossover. If you have training in audio frequency electronics equivalent to an engineering technician, have access to a room full of capacitors, resistors and inductors, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of test equipment and an anechoic chamber, have the use of thousands of dollars worth of software--all of these and several years of experience, you can design a crossover and therefore you can design a speaker system.

Barring that, there are only three possibilities. 1) Buy instead of building; 2) Make an exact copy of an existing system for which the parts are realistically available, or 3) Waste a lot of time and money throwing together an assemblage of random bits which is exceedingly unlikely ever to become a listenable speaker. Number one has already been recommended. Number three is not recommended.

That leaves number two. Under number two you must follow exactly the component selection, cabinet design, crossover schematic and crossover parts list of a speaker previously engineered by someone with the above qualifications, if you want predictable results. For legacy large format JBL monitors the possibilities are the following: 4355, 4345, 4344, possibly 4344 mk II, 4430, possibly the 4435, and the 4333. There are some earlier models which are really irrelevant at this point. You must follow the original or re-engineered component selections and crossovers exactly; you cannot make your own substitutions if you want to have satisfactory results.

If you really want the best speaker within this context follow the best advice available here; read the threads about the M2 and take about $2500 and go shopping at Speaker Exchange for M2 components. A passive crossover for that system has not yet been released, but you will not be alone in hoping that one soon will be. You should biamp, anyway.

If any of that sounds too grand, complicated and expensive for you, you are probably right. One last possibility, if you still aspire to enter the brotherhood of speaker builders is to go to madisound or parts express and buy and construct a series of speaker kits.

Yikes! Looks like my long procrastination's been warranted after all. I've been agonizing over whether to go ahead with my Franken45s(2245, 2206, 2390, 2405), or switch to the spec line up for 4345s. OTOH, the excellent advice/recipe I received from eminent members here suggests I follow through. What to do?

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable"

Sidney J. Harris

I think I'm gonna follow through

[speakerdave]

A few further points:

TAD drivers are really good, but none of them are plug and play, and the crossover/filter schematics are not to be had. Forget TAD for now.

Which of the JBL monitors you've fallen in love have you heard? Or are we just talking centerfolds here.

There are garages full of the necessary ingredients. People want money, though. What is your budget?

If you can spend up to $3000 you really should consider the M2. Without a great deal of luck you are going to spend that building big old monitors. The M2 is current, there are people here diying it now, you could get lots of shared experience and expert advice.

Be aware the devotion to old JBL you'll find in these forums is 75% longing for the good old days, 35% scoring a speaker drooled on forty or more years ago, 50% appreciation of dynamics, 50% flipping, and 20% wanting to associate with something world class. Think venn diagram.

Heed Wagner. 1) Buy small, build big. 2) The distance from small 43xx to large 43xx is not a little leap; it is orders of magnitude. Different conversations entirely.

If you are going to start by buying small monitors, I like the LSR32. Not a lot of others here agree. They do demand clean sources and electronics and substantial power. Why? Well, gee, they do what they're designed to do, provide a platform for analysis. They are seriously big sound in a small format package, though.

Also, you could get 2 new Revel C32 center channel speakers for about $1600. Add a subwoofer, and you're home.

[speakerdave]

Yikes! Looks like my long procrastination's been warranted after all . . . .

Absolutely! Procrastination is always a valid option. Why make a big mess?

In Steve Jobs Walter Isaacson says that when Woz worked at HP his evening entertainment was to sit back and design a personal computer in his head. And the next night he would do the same thing, but with fewer parts.

What we do is we sit back and design a speaker, in our heads. The next night we do the same thing, but with more parts.

[speakerdave]

. . . . I think I'm gonna follow through

Members with more than 200 posts, a test mike, a good EQ, pink noise and some craft brew can do what they want.

[Aculous]

A few further points:

TAD drivers are really good, but none of them are plug and play, and the crossover/filter schematics are not to be had. Forget TAD for now.

Which of the JBL monitors you've fallen in love have you heard? Or are we just talking centerfolds here.

There are garages full of the necessary ingredients. People want money, though. What is your budget?

If you can spend up to $3000 you really should consider the M2. Without a great deal of luck you are going to spend that building big old monitors. The M2 is current, there are people here diying it now, you could get lots of shared experience and expert advice.

Be aware the devotion to old JBL you'll find in these forums is 75% longing for the good old days and scoring a speaker drooled on forty or more years ago, 50% appreciation of dynamics, and 50% flipping, and 20% wanting to associate with something world class. Think venn diagram.

Heed Wagner. 1) Buy small, build big. 2) The distance from small 43xx to large 43xx is not a little leap; it is orders of magnitude. Different conversations entirely.

If you are going to start by buying small monitors, I like the LSR32. Not a lot of others here agree. They do demand clean sources and electronics and substantial power. Why? Well, gee, they do what they're designed to do, provide a platform for analysis. They are seriously big sound in a small format package, though.

Also, you could get 2 new Revel C32 center channel speakers for about $1600. Add a subwoofer, and you're home.

Oh man...well I am probably going to be beat up for this but here goes...

Which of the JBL monitors you've fallen in love have you heard? Or are we just talking centerfolds here.
-As of yet, none. I have "heard" via youtube only...the kendrick sound reproductions. (I know that is not a barometer that is indicative of their character but that is why I am going to take some local folks up on their offer to listen to a set of 4350s and a L300 at first)

My budget would be under $2000 if at all possible. (currently I have sourced a set of 2235h's to start. I planned on piecing it together slowly or as they come available. Parts Express has the 2426H compression driver but I am not sure if thats correct for a 4300 series build which goes to your other questions [also I would be tempted to recreate a L300 as I think that would fit the bill as well])

I was looking at ADAM, Event, Yamaha (NS10s and the HS8s), PreSonus, Genelec and of course JBL. But all of them had offerings that to me were near field monitors, the space is huge 40x50ft with a island in the middle. I want a studio monitor for "accuracy" and something with a somewhat less clinical sound, which is why I kept coming back to the JBL monitors of old.

I will look at Revel, they were not on my radar. I was seriously looking at the Maggie .7s and some DIY kits from Paul Carmody and Curt Campbell.

Thank you for your help by the way, and staying with it. I am looking at the M2 now. 3K$ is out of reach at the moment but I may be able to bend that a little. If I have some patience and sell off some gear, I would be able to get there.

[gasfan]

Members with more than 200 posts, a test mike, a good EQ, pink noise and some craft brew can do what they want.

Hey, I can't help it. Worse comes to worse I'll change the baffle. I intend to make it removable. I want to try 2397 as well. I'm a rebel. Besides, if I ask nicely, you guys are here to help.

[Wagner]

Oh man...well I am probably going to be beat up for this but here goes...

Which of the JBL monitors you've fallen in love have you heard? Or are we just talking centerfolds here.
-As of yet, none. I have "heard" via youtube only...the kendrick sound reproductions. (I know that is not a barometer that is indicative of their character but that is why I am going to take some local folks up on their offer to listen to a set of 4350s and a L300 at first)

My budget would be under $2000 if at all possible. (currently I have sourced a set of 2235h's to start. I planned on piecing it together slowly or as they come available. Parts Express has the 2426H compression driver but I am not sure if thats correct for a 4300 series build which goes to your other questions [also I would be tempted to recreate a L300 as I think that would fit the bill as well])

I was looking at ADAM, Event, Yamaha (NS10s and the HS8s), PreSonus, Genelec and of course JBL. But all of them had offerings that to me were near field monitors, the space is huge 40x50ft with a island in the middle. I want a studio monitor for "accuracy" and something with a somewhat less clinical sound, which is why I kept coming back to the JBL monitors of old.

I will look at Revel, they were not on my radar. I was seriously looking at the Maggie .7s and some DIY kits from Paul Carmody and Curt Campbell.

Thank you for your help by the way, and staying with it. I am looking at the M2 now. 3K$ is out of reach at the moment but I may be able to bend that a little. If I have some patience and sell off some gear, I would be able to get there.

What are you using, listening to in your system currently? Speakers and amplification?