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Thread: How to attach the badges on big 43's?

  1. #16
    Senior Member martin2395's Avatar
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    I suppose you could use some epoxy glue to attach them?

  2. #17
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Sorry, here in America JB Weld is a do-it-all two-part epoxy structural repair solution for anything from engine blocks to JBLs. I've even seen people make whole parts out of it. Works on anything that's not flexible.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Sorry, here in America JB Weld is a do-it-all two-part epoxy structural repair solution for anything from engine blocks to JBLs. I've even seen people make whole parts out of it. Works on anything that's not flexible.
    Not true, neither the "anything" part nor the "not flexible" part

    As far as two parts go it is almost a quaint relic today when compared to the advances made in epoxies and adhesives in general (although it does continue to sell extremely well, thanks in large part to name recognition and the lore surrounding it, born long ago when it was indeed a relatively superior product)

    Compared to what is available today at a good shop it's as primitive as a stick and a rock

  4. #19
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Not true, neither the "anything" part nor the "not flexible" part

    As far as two parts go it is almost a quaint relic today when compared to the advances made in epoxies and adhesives in general (although it does continue to sell extremely well, thanks in large part to name recognition and the lore surrounding it, born long ago when it was indeed a relatively superior product)

    Compared to what is available today at a good shop it's as primitive as a stick and a rock
    Thank you for your usual contribution. Do have anything constructive to add?

    When did you last use JB Weld?
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  5. #20
    Senior Member martin2395's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Sorry, here in America JB Weld is a do-it-all two-part epoxy structural repair solution for anything from engine blocks to JBLs. I've even seen people make whole parts out of it. Works on anything that's not flexible.
    Oh well, I just learnt something new
    At first I thought "Huh, this guy is going to weld a small pin to a piece of aluminium, what's wrong with him??"

    You guys have so much stuff (tools/materials) for DIY we can only dream of.

  6. #21
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin2395 View Post
    Oh well, I just learnt something new
    At first I thought "Huh, this guy is going to weld a small pin to a piece of aluminium, what's wrong with him??"

    You guys have so much stuff (tools/materials) for DIY we can only dream of.
    I'm not endorsing this as a proper repair technique, but if it can successfully keep a cracked cylinder head operating, it can probably hold a tie-tack to a grille badge!



    https://youtu.be/JksxJX6M6qA
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Thank you for your usual contribution. Do have anything constructive to add?

    When did you last use JB Weld?
    The last time I used JBL was to repair a piece of costume jewelry for my Wife a few years back which is about all it's good for (re-setting a stone and re-attaching a band) I needed the grey color

    Before that, to repair a piece of cracked pot metal on an old Columbia Grafonola's arm base (again, I needed that grey color)

    I was, and still am, a master certified automobile mechanic, ASE Master, L1 Advanced Emissions, ASE Service Consultant, hold an unlimited Kalifornia SMOG test and repair license and I still hold 3 current automobile manufacturers' master certifications (you may also enjoy the fact that I was a certified BMW tech back in the '80s)

    For 40+ years I have worked on machinery (and JB Weld has been (unfortunately) in my life for all of that time as the dozens of hack and shade tree "mechanics" I have known/encountered through the years all just loved f'ing things up with it after they had initially f'ed things up with their air hatchets
    I am intimately familiar with JB Weld in all of it's forms as well as it's many shortcomings

    The stuff sucks

    The fact that the well worn cracked block anecdotal testimonial which has appeared on it's packaging for decades has endured and proven so endearing to so many for so long, doesn't change the fact that it is bull shit, if not an anomaly at best. Maybe it did patch some piece of shit together for some farmer decades ago, so what?

    It is a grand testimony to the power of good marketing (tell a GREAT story that holds forth HOPE) and the stupidity of the gullible (the story just sounds so GREAT, same as shit that'll stop a worn out rear main from leaking or a block with cracked rings from burning it) People looking to avoid spending money on legitimate repairs just eat that sort of shit (product and promise) up, anything to avoid paying or effecting what is actually indicated to be done. Take a stroll through the aisles of any good parts store; the shelves are filled with the crap.

    To suggest JB Weld as a possible (good) solution for the task being discussed here in this thread is akin to using duct tape to repair a burst radiator hose, ie: a hack repair/approach

    It's the same as Marine-Tex, a temporary, emergency solution at best (for cracked engine parts) And if you insist on using these sorts of cures (or must, as in no other choice), for what it's worth, Marine-Tex is a superior hack

    JB Weld is a coarse, extremely viscous, crude epoxy from a time gone by. Sure, it'll stick things together (some things) fairly well, but that's about it

    There are far superior epoxies with much greater efficacy and "application appropriateness" on the market today than JB Weld

    I'll ask you: when was the last time you effectively repaired an engine block with JB Weld? A crack or flaw subject to full operating temperature and pressures ? On anything you'd drive yourself beyond the end of your driveway?

    Don't peddle and spread irresponsible bull shit fella (especially about things you know zip about except maybe what someone's told you or you heard or read somewhere)

  8. #23
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Don't peddle and spread irresponsible bull shit fella (especially about things you know zip about except maybe what someone's told you or you heard or read somewhere)
    Once again you've managed to be offensive without providing any constructive solution.

    We're talking about attaching a tie-pin to a piece of near-weightless sheetmetal. I think it will work just fine, and it's easy to find in inexpensive small quantities. The rest of the JB Weld story was for the benefit of our non-USA members confused by the reference.

    If you want to make a suggestion for a specific product that you think may be better suited to the task, then please, do so. Maybe you can find a way to do so without your superior attitude or purposely aggravating everyone else here?

    Frankly, I don't know how the moderators let you continue with your divisive commentary, which really ruins the friendly tone of this forum for many of us.

    FWIW, when I was service manager of a BMW, Porsche, Audi store maybe 45-years ago, I required all my techs to take the ASE certification tests. To lessen their disdain for wasting their time, I told them I'd go with them and take them, too. I've never worked as a tech, only learning and working on my own cars and bikes since 1971. Still I passed the test and have a certificate from them (somewhere) to prove it. Point being when multiple-choice questions such as "what is this blue wire in a Ford ignition system" determine whether your mechanic can hang out a shingle from a "non-profit" accrediting group, I am unimpressed by such credentials. I remember missing one question because it showed a scored cylinder bore and I couldn't believe anyone would actually run a car without an air-cleaner long enough to do such damage, or that such a vaunted testing organization would bother which such a question in "certifying" technicians.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    We're talking about attaching a tie-pin to a piece of near-weightless sheetmetal. I think it will work just fine, and it's easy to find in inexpensive small quantities.
    If you want to make a suggestion for a specific product that you think may be better suited to the task, then please, do so.
    You're the one that called me out on it, my "experience" that is

    As for suggestions? I did, take a look at page one (I misunderstood the full scope of the task(s) at hand initially I believe) All the speed nut related type posts led me to believe the challenge simply was attaching the whole assembly to the frame tabs/cloth, and which I believe still is. That is the problem I was initially speaking to and no JB Weld required as it is still not

    In post #1, the OP said nothing of pins, the smooth back of his fascia strip only came up further down, leading me now to understand he has TWO issues to solve, yes?:
    Quote Originally Posted by martin2395 View Post
    Can anyone tell me how are the original "Model 43XX studio monitor" metal badges attached to the front grilles? I know that the there are metal lips with holes in the frame itself but the badge itself doesn't have any adhesive.
    I could not see the full extent of the challenges posed from the photos provided by others and I do not own this particular model up for discussion, but I am familiar with repairing things

    If what the poster wants/needs to accomplish is to attach the decorative fascia to a mounting back WITH PINS, I would advise going a route similar to the way that the old long style AR badges were assembled, the decorative brass front on a steel back, and then I have a suggestion for that too (which is far superior to JB Weld in all ways and is reversible if need be)

    Contact cement, which can be brushed on in a very thin film, provides an instant bond and doesn't require mixing or clamping

    If you don't want to go that route, then some wood worker's grade double sided tape would be a possible choice (with NO chance of fouling the work piece) but the adhesive may leach out and migrate over time compromising the bond, possibly spoilng his grille cloth as well as being to thick initially to produce an attractive result

    And last but not least, a thin film, brushed on or applied with a finger, of any good PVA like Elmer's Glue-All with work just fine on any low shear/no shear factor application. If a PVA is used then definitely allow a full 24 hours cure before attaching the assembly to the frame

    So, if I am now understanding things thoroughly, again his answer resides in mimicking how AR did it; use one of the suggested adhesives (preferable the contact cement) and attached the required number of these to the back of the decorative fascia, problems solved:

    They're called square caps and are used for many roofing and flashing jobs. On well made ones, the shank and the head are welded together so the head can be ground down even thinner if he wants/needs for a nice flush fit. The slight protrusion of the head will pose no problem with attaching if contact cement is used. The large square head also provides greater surface area for bonding and will prove more effective than the smallish head of a craft store pin, stud or rivet

    They do make them with no head protrusion but are more difficult to find

    They also come in several sizes and the head can easily be trimmed down to size if need be. Any of the tacks available at craft stores are too flimsy, I know, I tried to acquire some suitable ones there in order to assemble a shadow box type display of my Father's WWII dog tags and various regalia (same sort of off the shelf engineering challenge as this one) I would avoid them for this job as the square caps shanks offer the benefit of long term durability and strength and are able to withstand multiple removal/re-installs without breaking if the need be

    I know they have rooves and flashing in "Europe" so the OP should have no problems finding these at any store that sells roofing or construction materials, as well as a small bottle of contact cement

    The shanks can then be secured after they pass through the grille frames' mounting tabs with any of the options suggested on page one of this tread, including the speed nuts. I'll even mail him enough of my JBL type stash (the small round ones I described on page one) if he's interested in trying those. It would probably be wiser to pick them up where he bought the nails though thus ensuring a proper fit if that's the choice that is made Still, he's welcome to try some of what I have, just provide me an address

    I would (strongly suggest) however, using a large thick neoprene or rubber washer or similar, another basic hardware store item (or however many thick small ones if you can find them), cut up into pieces to fit (cut carefully and make them look nice, professional) just pierce the pieces with a needle and let friction hold the assembly to the grille tabs. This method allows for a secure, snug fit but is easy to remove if ever the need be
    You can even use the small hard rubber bumpers they sell for putting on the bottom of heavy objects that are going to come into contact with surfaces like wood that you don't want scarred; just pierce them with a large pin or needle and push them onto the shank

  10. #25
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin2395 View Post
    I suppose you could use some epoxy glue to attach them?
    The 8 Egyptians used it, now they're in court.

    Had to bring in Germans to do it right

    http://www.history.com/news/beard-on...-glued-back-on
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/24/africa...-mask-charges/
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...hey-used-epoxy
    STRANGE ....is the new NORMAL

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Frankly, I don't know how the moderators let you continue with your divisive commentary, which really ruins the friendly tone of this forum for many of us.
    And "frankly" I do not understand why you insist on tacitly calling the moderators' attentions to any post in which I disagree with you or call you out on your , bragging, bravado and one-upmanship, hiding behind the pretense of speaking for "many of us"
    "Divisive commentary"? "Offensive"? You have got to be kidding me! Sounds like some liberal politician, pretty presumptuous of you if you ask me, kind of like "a MAJORITY of Americans" want or believe "x,y or z"! Too funny!

    You resort to, and display this behavior frequently; you may THINK your frequent digs on and about others are clever or subtle but they're not, your air of arrogance shines through, whether it's about your superior equipment (both past and present), your name dropping, how much money you have, how brilliant you are......even the cars that you drive

    Then when someone (like me) calls you on it, you feel uncomfortable about it and cry and complain

    If you do not care for my posts or my personality, then don't read my posts. Use the ignore feature and don't be a little tattletale

    Very unbecoming of an allegedly grown man, just make your own arguments and defend your own positions on things, that's what forums are supposedly all about

    Nothing wrong with a heated, passionate debate or discussion as long as it refrains from becoming profane

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    I saw that story on television, hilarious if it wasn't so f'ing STOOOOOOOOOPID and sad

    Yeah, "over the counter" "epoxy" in general is one of the most misused, misapplied, misunderstood adhesives ever made
    Became an established hit for domestic use, as in DIY, in the '60s when it became available on a widespread basis to the general public (big time stuff, I was into building flying models at the time)

    BIG BIG favorite with a lot of the Fisher guys (EVERY TIME someone has a "it's broken!" problem, right out of the gate it's "well, I used epoxy"
    Makes me wince when I hear some of the things they use it/recommend it for

    Epoxy, especially the structural and marine types, are great for CERTAIN things, but sucks out loud for others

    And to make matters worse, the majority of it sold in places like ACE (on a blister pack) is over priced and a very poor grade with less than predictable results

    Clearly, not all created equal

    I sure spayed about a million gallons of it when I did my brief boat building stint; that's the shit that probably assisted with helping to get the game started treating me to the joys of cancer (the catalyst we used)! World wasn't so smart back then about protective clothing and the like!

    Rubber gloves for mechanics and machinists came a little late for me too!

    Ah well, the good old days!

  13. #28
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    You resort to, and display this behavior frequently; you may THINK your frequent digs on and about others are clever or subtle but they're not, your air of arrogance shines through, whether it's about your superior equipment (both past and present), your name dropping, how much money you have, how brilliant you are......even the cars that you drive
    I have no idea where you get such an opinion. Where you looking in a mirror when you wrote that??
    Those here who know me understand everything you claim is bunk. This is neither the time or place to debate personalities. I'm comfortable in my shoes. You apparently are not.

    But to the point of the thread, you've misunderstood the question and the application. Check out the photos of the frame with the tabs attached and then maybe your learned response could actually be almost on-target as a solution.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  14. #29
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Its probably not the "right" glue, but I've had good luck with RTV silicon adhesive for attaching dissimilar pieces together.
    Commonly available at Home Despot or whatever for $3-4 bucks a tube for the bathroom caulk version of it -
    just put a dab on the back of the JBL logo, face down, and stick the head of one of those tie tack into it,
    and let it stand that way overnight to cure. Doesn't need a lot of strength to work, and you can peel it apart
    pretty easily without damaging the logo/badge at some point if you want to do something else ...
    2ch: Oppo, Acurus RL-11, JBL 240ti, Heath AS101, Carver TFM-25,Von Schweikert VR4
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Its probably not the "right" glue, but I've had good luck with RTV silicon adhesive for attaching dissimilar pieces together.
    Commonly available at Home Despot or whatever for $3-4 bucks a tube for the bathroom caulk version of it -
    just put a dab on the back of the JBL logo, face down, and stick the head of one of those tie tack into it,
    and let it stand that way overnight to cure. Doesn't need a lot of strength to work, and you can peel it apart
    pretty easily without damaging the logo/badge at some point if you want to do something else ...
    You are absolutely correct
    RTV is an excellent suggestion/solution and they make readily available mixes of it that are indeed intended for not just caulking but "gluing" as well

    In fact, my "square caps" used with RTV would probably be better from a financial perspective. I only buy contact cement by the pint can at minimum (and it's expensive) as the little brown bottles "for around the house repairs" at "ACE" always seem to be covered with dust and well beyond their expiration date (and anyone that's ever used it knows that contact cement that's old doesn't work, or brush out, worth a shit) Gets stringy and impossible to apply properly
    A pint can goes a long way with DIY projects but unless you're going to use it up within a year or so it'd be money wasted for so small a job. I can easily go through a can every 6 months though as it's just so damn useful for so many things

    I just like working with it as it allows for fast assembly and the bond becomes stronger over time

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