JBL 4367 first listen

[hsosdrum]

In a recent comparison between the Salon 2 and the M2 about 80% of the people preferred the Revels. I wonder if that also correlates to the percentage of people who prefer traditional speakers over CD, horn speakers?

A properly set up, properly tuned pair of M2s will ruthlessly reveal even the most miniscule problems with source material and any downstream components. I am quite sure that 80% of listeners — even those who call themselves "audiophiles" — have rarely, if ever, heard this degree of honesty from a reproducing transducer system. I'm not the least bit surprised that the overwhelming majority of the listeners in the above comparison preferred the Salon 2: it delivers what they are used to hearing. The trouble is, they are used to hearing speakers that sound more like speakers and less like the actual sound that's encoded into the source material. The M2 is a paradigm change from this.

Of course, YMMV, but this is the mileage the M2 delivers to me.

[edgewound]

A properly set up, properly tuned pair of M2s will ruthlessly reveal even the most miniscule problems with source material and any downstream components. I am quite sure that 80% of listeners — even those who call themselves "audiophiles" — have rarely, if ever, heard this degree of honesty from a reproducing transducer system. I'm not the least bit surprised that the overwhelming majority of the listeners in the above comparison preferred the Salon 2: it delivers what they are used to hearing. The trouble is, they are used to hearing speakers that sound more like speakers and less like the actual sound that's encoded into the source material. The M2 is a paradigm change from this.

Of course, YMMV, but this is the mileage the M2 delivers to me.

Very much why I didn't particularly care for the 4367. Too much detail was pushed back in the mix. The sound was very big, but rather very bland.

[Mr. Widget]

A properly set up, properly tuned pair of M2s will ruthlessly reveal even the most miniscule problems with source material and any downstream components. I am quite sure that 80% of listeners — even those who call themselves "audiophiles" — have rarely, if ever, heard this degree of honesty from a reproducing transducer system. I'm not the least bit surprised that the overwhelming majority of the listeners in the above comparison preferred the Salon 2: it delivers what they are used to hearing. The trouble is, they are used to hearing speakers that sound more like speakers and less like the actual sound that's encoded into the source material. The M2 is a paradigm change from this.

Of course, YMMV, but this is the mileage the M2 delivers to me.

I agree that the M2s are exceptional speakers. Ruthless? I wouldn’t describe them that way, but I would say they are detailed and they do image well and with the DSP room tuning and system correction they provide a window into music that many others can’t match. I have heard Salon2s and M2s in the same room during extensive listening sessions and I preferred the M2s. That said, the listening sessions were separated by a pretty long time between them.

As much as I respect the M2 monitors I still prefer my E2s.


Widget

[Mannermusic]

I agree that the M2s are exceptional speakers. Ruthless? I wouldn’t describe them that way, but I would say they are detailed and they do image well and with the DSP room tuning and system correction they provide a window into music that many others can’t match. I have heard Salon2s and M2s in the same room during extensive listening sessions and I preferred the M2s. That said, the listening sessions were separated by a pretty long time between them.

As much as I respect the M2 monitors I still prefer my E2s.


Widget

Not surprised - an engineering tool is not necessarily the most satisfying home hi fi system. Two different purposes / design criteria.

[jblnut]

I spent some time with a pair of Salon2's and they have shaken my JBL faith to the core. I think these are "the ones" I will aspire to over the next few years. They simply do everything I like about the 250Ti, only better. Much better.

I will seek out an audition of 4365/4367/M2 before I decide for certain, but I get all of the "engineering tool" comments here. If we walked about wearing magnifying glasses, our houses would never seem clean. I'm not sure I want to micro examine every thing I listen to, as that leads to analysis paralysis - and less musical enjoyment.

jblnut

[Ian Mackenzie]

“ If we walked about wearing magnifying glasses, our houses would never seem clean.”

That’s why we chose a timber floor and not tiles in the new house!

You guys are funny. It’s like watching a bucket of paint been thrown over a new car each time someone walks past because some (one) gives it a bad wrap. Prior to Edgewounds comment there was none of this sentiment

[ivica]

I agree that the M2s are exceptional speakers. ......
As much as I respect the M2 monitors I still prefer my E2s.


Widget

Hi Widget,

Interesting conclusion. It would be interesting the comparison with E2 that are active EQ too, to be fair comparison.

regards
ivica

[Titanium Dome]

I spent some time with a pair of Salon2's and they have shaken my JBL faith to the core. I think these are "the ones" I will aspire to over the next few years. They simply do everything I like about the 250Ti, only better. Much better.

I will seek out an audition of 4365/4367/M2 before I decide for certain, but I get all of the "engineering tool" comments here. If we walked about wearing magnifying glasses, our houses would never seem clean. I'm not sure I want to micro examine every thing I listen to, as that leads to analysis paralysis - and less musical enjoyment.

jblnut

Rumors out of Samsung/Harman/Northridge are of new cabinet finishes and a price increase for all Ultima2 Salons. At least in the short term this might also raise the used market prices. Since the Ultima2 intro a decade ago, prices have held steady, so it's no surprise a price adjustment needs to be made. If you buy them new now and finance them, it still might be cheaper than waiting until you have the $$$.

From my moniker, it's clear I'm a fan of Ti drivers, especially the inverted dome type, and the Ultima2 Salons have them in spades, plus a nice Be on top. You can hardly go wrong with them. Yet, I've repeatedly avoided getting them.

Of course, you know the Dome loves a deal! I recently passed on a pair of Salons NIB for less than half of retail, because a) I'm still in love with the K2 S9900s which I passed up the Salons for several years back, and b) an even crazier deal popped up for some speakers I wanted more. (Salons are gone, so don't ask.)

But of course, someday I'm gonna get those Salons! (Insert your favorite off-color French-Canadian voyager joke here.)

[edgewound]

I spent some time with a pair of Salon2's and they have shaken my JBL faith to the core. I think these are "the ones" I will aspire to over the next few years. They simply do everything I like about the 250Ti, only better. Much better.

I will seek out an audition of 4365/4367/M2 before I decide for certain, but I get all of the "engineering tool" comments here. If we walked about wearing magnifying glasses, our houses would never seem clean. I'm not sure I want to micro examine every thing I listen to, as that leads to analysis paralysis - and less musical enjoyment.

jblnut

I saw a pair of TAD Reference One...as new...for less than half price on AudioGon the other day. Under $35K. They blow away anything by Revel. Just being honest.

[jblnut]

Salon2's are at 10k now (used) ...once kids are through college in 6 years I fully expect to snag a pair for $5k or so. There's always an audiophile in a hurry somewhere with an irritated wife and huge speakers that need to move out. Mr Dome thinks prices will be higher but I don't share that sentiment. Very, very few speakers are on an upward trend.

Will check back in 6 years once I have completed the deal :-).

TAD for $35k ? Nice but too many other things with motors (gasoline) I'd buy at that price. And my room doesn't warrant commitment at that level either. You'd really want a purpose built space to get all that those could offer.


jblnut

[DallasJustice]

Hello! I hope it’s okay to post here. It’s been a while.

I plan to convert my 4367 pair into a four driver active setup using digital crossovers.

I posted some pictures and video over here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...os-video.2293/

I would love feedback from you folks. I am experienced with digital crossovers. I currently use software called Audiolense. This is my plan:
1. Measure my 4367 speaker HF and LF separated out so I can see where the crossover point should be and get a good idea of the slope.
2. Remove 2 speaker terminals so that there’s two holes through which I can feed two cables per speaker.
3. Disconnect the D2 compression driver from the XO board. Connect a speaker cable with 1/4” slide on spade female connectors. Connect the cable to my AHB2 amp. Set AHB2 amp to lowest output gain.
4. Disconnect midwoofer from XO board. Connect bare wire speaker cable to midwoofer. Connect that cable to 2nd AHB2 amp which will be set to a higher gain.


I use a Lynx Hilo so routing and channel count isn’t an issue. I’m familiar with the Hilo mixer and know how to use output mix routing page on the Hilo.

5. Define a custom pink noise in REW around the crossover region. Play the tone and level match the D2 and midwoofer using analog gain setting or analog output voltage settings on the DAC.

6. Setup crossover and slope in Audiolense which closely matches the crossover and slopes previously measured using REW.
7. Setup routing and record log sweeps in Audiolense.
8. I will use a preferred target curve.
9. Perform loopback measurements using REW loopback into Jriver through convolver.

My setup also also includes a couple of subs. But I want to leave them out of the discussion for now. I currently cross my 4367 speakers over to mono subs around 90hz. So I’ll keep that the same since I know it works well.

Thank you.
Michael.

[Robh3606]

Why don't you start a new thread so this project doesn't get lost. You can keep it where it is if you want your call,

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

Salon2's are at 10k now (used) ...once kids are through college in 6 years I fully expect to snag a pair for $5k or so. There's always an audiophile in a hurry somewhere with an irritated wife and huge speakers that need to move out. Mr Dome thinks prices will be higher but I don't share that sentiment. Very, very few speakers are on an upward trend.

Will check back in 6 years once I have completed the deal :-).

TAD for $35k ? Nice but too many other things with motors (gasoline) I'd buy at that price. And my room doesn't warrant commitment at that level either. You'd really want a purpose built space to get all that those could offer.


jblnut

I thought buying your dream loudspeakers was an
emotional retail decision.

I recall the scenario with Dome’s decision to buy the S9900 over the Revel at a show in SF. I am fairly certain it was an emotional decision (not rational).

You just do it and sort out the consequences later!

BTW. Our new pool will be handed over on Saturday so l will start talking up my audio aspirations.

My sister in law recently bought a Maserati Levante SUV just because she wanted everyone to know she owned one.
Family rivalry 101. So l doubt will get a knock back.

https://www.maserati.com/maserati/au...SADEgIvz_D_BwE

[pos]

Hello! I hope it’s okay to post here. It’s been a while.

I plan to convert my 4367 pair into a four driver active setup using digital crossovers.

I posted some pictures and video over here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...os-video.2293/

I would love feedback from you folks. I am experienced with digital crossovers. I currently use software called Audiolense. This is my plan:
1. Measure my 4367 speaker HF and LF separated out so I can see where the crossover point should be and get a good idea of the slope.
2. Remove 2 speaker terminals so that there’s two holes through which I can feed two cables per speaker.
3. Disconnect the D2 compression driver from the XO board. Connect a speaker cable with 1/4” slide on spade female connectors. Connect the cable to my AHB2 amp. Set AHB2 amp to lowest output gain.
4. Disconnect midwoofer from XO board. Connect bare wire speaker cable to midwoofer. Connect that cable to 2nd AHB2 amp which will be set to a higher gain.


I use a Lynx Hilo so routing and channel count isn’t an issue. I’m familiar with the Hilo mixer and know how to use output mix routing page on the Hilo.

5. Define a custom pink noise in REW around the crossover region. Play the tone and level match the D2 and midwoofer using analog gain setting or analog output voltage settings on the DAC.

6. Setup crossover and slope in Audiolense which closely matches the crossover and slopes previously measured using REW.
7. Setup routing and record log sweeps in Audiolense.
8. I will use a preferred target curve.
9. Perform loopback measurements using REW loopback into Jriver through convolver.

My setup also also includes a couple of subs. But I want to leave them out of the discussion for now. I currently cross my 4367 speakers over to mono subs around 90hz. So I’ll keep that the same since I know it works well.

Thank you.
Michael.

Hello Michael, and welcome to the forum.
Benchmark AHB2 amps and Lynx Hilo converters, this is a dream setup

[jblnut]

I thought buying your dream loudspeakers was an
emotional retail decision.

I recall the scenario with Dome’s decision to buy the S9900 over the Revel at a show in SF. I am fairly certain it was an emotional decision (not rational).

You just do it and sort out the consequences later!

BTW. Our new pool will be handed over on Saturday so l will start talking up my audio aspirations.

My sister in law recently bought a Maserati Levante SUV just because she wanted everyone to know she owned one.
Family rivalry 101. So l doubt will get a knock back.

https://www.maserati.com/maserati/au...SADEgIvz_D_BwE

Not married eh ? No one who is married just up and buys $10k speakers just to fulfill a "dream" (lest it turn into a nightmare) :-). I have a very understanding wife, but there are limits. One has to approach giant expensive speakers quite carefully, lest one get to sleep in the yard with them.

I predict you will win the family rivalry and have the last laugh though. I have a friend who works at a dealer that sells several luxury brands, including Maserati. Quality...is not high with that brand.

jblnut