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Thread: JBL 4367 first listen

  1. #331
    Member Fitero's Avatar
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    I connected a very large amount of gear to my 4367s. The McIntosh gear that I used gave me the same impression that you are describing, minus the bass extension.

    As you mention, the bass is articulate, hard-hitting and of great tone. However, it doesn't go terribly low. As recommended, boosting the bass @ 30hz by 3 to 6 db fixes this.

    A simple test would be to connect another amp to the speakers and listen to it then. (I hooked up a cheap 100WPC Denon, Stereo receiver to power them briefly). I work for a dealer that sells Mac gear. All of us believe that "most" of the Mac gear tends to sound "polite".

  2. #332
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    Amplifiers forJBL 4367

    Wondering what amplifiers 4367 owners have used? Anyone used lower powered ones (150-200w SS)and went up to higher (300w+) ones? How much actual sound difference can you tell with different power amps? Especially in mid to lower listening volumes(amplification level under 2W or 33%)? Which one you liked the most? Thanks All

  3. #333
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
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    Street Prices of the 4367

    I read through a lot of the posts but didn't see what the 4367's are selling for? I saw the list but was curious if there is ever a discount?

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post
    I read through a lot of the posts but didn't see what the 4367's are selling for? I saw the list but was curious if there is ever a discount?
    Musicdirect.com still list for $15,000. Saw one last week on Audiogon (used) ask for around $9,000.

  5. #335
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    Red face JBL 4367 owner ship update

    After about 2 months listening, the stereo image becomes clearer . My“ polite “ Mcintosh MAC 7200 amp+ 4367 combo sounded a little too polite at the beginning. But the more you listen the better you feel. There is zero ear fatigue. Also the initial “ muffled, low stero image “ impression slowly went away. It just takes a little time and attention to get use to the new stereo image ( from my previous more up front JBL 308 active studio monitors’s image) My interpretation of this progress is the conservative design philosophy of Tim and Mcintosh. I listen mostly soft rocks at mid to lower volume. I am glad I picked this conservative combination. Great job Tim and Mcintosh.

  6. #336
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    New 4367 owner

    I upgraded my beloved 4429 to a pair of 4367 a few weeks back, my first impressions were really bad and I was thinking to my self why the hell did I buy those crappy boxes. I used my burn-in tracks (ISOTEK) for 8-10 hours and played loud music all day, after 40-50 hours burn-in I had my first listening session, but sadly the sound was just as bad as I remembered.

    The tonal balance between the top and the bottom drivers were way off, my listening room is not that good, but then again its not that bad either. I managed the get the bass in order but the treble and midrange was still awful so I decided to use Dirac Live to sort things out. With Dirac live I created two house curves, one with offset in B&K reference and one with offset in Harman reference curve only change was using the speakers natural roll off within my room.

    Things cleared up a lot, but the tonal balance was still wrong, way to much air and "S" sounds and other high pitched instruments was making artifacts in the sound reproduction. I moved the speakers around but still the same, I was just about to give up and sell'em when I decided to give it one more shot. I'm using a McIntosh MA7900 amp, and I remember a few years back when my old McIntosh had some issues that the distributor told me that Mac did not favor the use of speaker cables using carbon, I also remember Roger Russel from Mac saying that Mac amps did not care about cables; "just use some good quality copper" so I decided to skip my VHD Magnum Hybrid (Silver plated copper with carbon wrap) and went to buy some old school copper cables, I went with the dealers recommendation of some inexpensive CHORD Clearway cables, patched things up and put some music on and left the room to let the cables settle for half a day.

    Before I go on I have to say that this is not a cable review and I not trying to start another cable fight :-). With the Chord cables things settled down, now the JBL sounds like one unit and I'm starting to enjoy them, all the high pitched sounds are gone and I think with some small adjustments I can get the sound reproduction that I expected in the first case. VDH makes great cables and so do Chord, but with such a huge difference using other cables something in the Magnum Hybrid must be incompatible with the 4367 horn/wave guide, maybe its the high sensitivity who knows, could also be the McIntosh amp but I had no problems with the 4429. Anyway I just wanted let other owners know about my discovery.

    Dirac Live was a trial but I liked so much that I ordered a MiniDSP with Dirac Live, when its up and running I'll let you know the result.

  7. #337
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    Room treatments

    What you are describing is very similar to what I am going through (although at a lower stress/dissatisfaction level) with my recent 250Ti -> Revel Salon 2 switch. The Salons have a much wider dispersion pattern and it's putting a lot more mid and high frequency info into the room that the more focused 250's did.

    I would suggest you get some GIK panels (or similar) on those first reflection points to see if you can tame this. I will be doing the same soon.

    jblnut

  8. #338
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    My ceiling has 100% full acoustic treatment, I sure that the VDH cables is the problem because cables can not make that kind of changes in a setup under normal circumstances.

    Anyway thanks for sharing, hope you get your issues with those super nice speakers sorted out

  9. #339
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    It makes sense.

    Cable inductance and capacitance and other things that are not fully understood can modify the subjective appeal.

    The newer jbls like the 4367 with the new driver are even more analytical than the early vintage compression drivers.

    This means they will ruthlessly reveal any components in the signal path.

    Putting in those prior cables was like winding up the analytical nature of the loudspeakers.

    What l have found is a smooth and resolving power amp with hint of warmth makes for a nice subjective presentation.

    My suggestion is your journey with the rest of your system has only just begun.

    Your assumptions about your other components are being tested by the 4367’s.

    I do favour Pass labs with jbls and recommend trying out an amp like the new 250 integrated.
    https://www.passlabs.com/amplifier/int-250

    Alternatively consider bi amp mode with a smaller amp on the horn.

    I have heard valve Quick Silver amps and they are nice.

    Pm me if you want more detailed discussion on this.

  10. #340
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    They are much more revealing than I expected, I actually found out that clipping/pops I hear sometimes from my CD's are from the recording process in the studio and not the speaker doing anything wrong. When I play the same number from spotify on my earphones I can hear the same flaws/glitches but the JBL's bring them out on a whole new level which I don't think will enjoy in the long run.

    I'm still waiting for my Minidsp room correction unit, I really hope that it can tone down the details a bit, if not, next step is replacing the McIntosh MA7900. The Pass Lab you mentioned has been on my radar for a while.

    A couple of songs with errors:

    REM - Losing my religion (Out of time) 15-16 seconds in there is a bad cut

    Bruce Springsteen - Downbound train (Born in the USA) 2.20 Guitar fail

    Small errors, but with the JBL you hear them right away.

  11. #341
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    Same river, similar boat...

    I am in this same place with the Salons...there is so much more detail that it can be overwhelming at times. Other times, it's pure bliss - if the recording is very good you'd swear the band is in the room.

    Having super revealing speakers is a challenge, to your room, to your gear and to your recordings. Owning an electron microscope might be cool, but you wouldn't want to see everything in your life that way. This is an exaggerated analogy, but I think you get my drift.

    Good luck finding the balance!

    jblnut

  12. #342
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I have heard a modified Oppo 105 playing reel to reel master tapes burnt to a HD.

    The impressions among a group of 5 experienced listeners were that very high quality recordings through equally good loudspeakers bought you much closer to the original recorded event. Some recordings were better than others but there was no intrusive influence from the amplifiers.

    If l introduce a different source the change is immediately obvious. All these observations have only come into clear focus with a newly developed discrete class A analogue active crossover network l have developed and precision setting up of driver levels.

    The unanimous conclusion is if your electronics are really good (which mine are) it cones down to the recording and the loudspeakers. I hope this makes sense.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblnut View Post
    I am in this same place with the Salons...there is so much more detail that it can be overwhelming at times. Other times, it's pure bliss - if the recording is very good you'd swear the band is in the room.

    Having super revealing speakers is a challenge, to your room, to your gear and to your recordings. Owning an electron microscope might be cool, but you wouldn't want to see everything in your life that way. This is an exaggerated analogy, but I think you get my drift.

    Good luck finding the balance!

    jblnut
    Nice analogy.

    Maybe you can use this. Dynaudio tech specialist came up with this recommendation for listening. Basics for placement should be done first, equal length from side/back walls etc.


    1. Distance between speakers for larger speakers (he was using contour 30 as an example) should be about 10 feet from mid speaker to mid speaker (acoustic center) to create a good sound stage. Distance is not so important, good clean bass output is more important.

    2. An equilateral triangle should NOT be used as this is the spot for producing music where you place the instruments in the mix, he suggest to move back 3-4 feet to enjoy the music that the producer made for you.

    3. Toe-in should be so you can still see the inside of the speaker from your listening position.

    I tried it yesterday and it seems to do something good, huge sound stage and the productions errors I mentioned earlier are not so intrusive as before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I have heard a modified Oppo 105 playing reel to reel master tapes burnt to a HD.

    The impressions among a group of 5 experienced listeners were that very high quality recordings through equally good loudspeakers bought you much closer to the original recorded event. Some recordings were better than others but there was no intrusive influence from the amplifiers.

    If l introduce a different source the change is immediately obvious. All these observations have only come into clear focus with a newly developed discrete class A analogue active crossover network l have developed and precision setting up of driver levels.

    The unanimous conclusion is if your electronics are really good (which mine are) it cones down to the recording and the loudspeakers. I hope this makes sense.

    It all makes sense, I guess that's the price of going "High end". I do have to say that good recordings like Bob Dylan-Infidels which have good dynamics and minimum compression sounds very lovely :-)

  14. #344
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DK11706 View Post
    Nice analogy

    It all makes sense, I guess that's the price of going "High end". I do have to say that good recordings like Bob Dylan-Infidels which have good dynamics and minimum compression sounds very lovely :-)
    Okay here is the thing.

    My system is not hi end but l do have a good room.
    The Pass Labs equipment l acquired used from Reno HiFi. The other key aspect in listen performance is the new discrete analogue active crossover l have developed over the past 18 months and my 4345 clones which have been carefully improved and setup over an extended period of time. According to hi end system owners these clones bowl over hi end systems valued in the 6 figures.

    Btw l run the system along the long wall ( with an equilateral triangle 2.9 m x 2.9 m x 2.9 m 10-15 degrees toe in) in
    a full furnished room, carpet, rug, book shelves and windows covered by velvet drapes behind the listening location. The room is 4.7m w x 4.00m d x 2.7m h). Placing the 4345’s closer together creates too much intensity and as you say makes for too much intensity. With the above arrange l get immersion within the sound stage and perfect tonal balance. No room EQ is required. I have the speakers raised about 6 inches off the floor.

    Put simply big loudspeakers need room to breathe.

    Of course what you experience is going to be about the recording

  15. #345
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    Back with a follow up..

    I have spend the last 3 weeks moving around and making final adjustments, but it was worth it, now everything is set up as perfect as it can be in my listening room.

    The 4367s needed a lot more breaking in, the horn has settled down and almost all the sibilance is gone, the woofer has a serious punch now, but most important they sound like one big unit now.

    I`m using dirac live to adjust frequencies below 300hz, curve is flat, no boost at all. Sound is kinda warm, but seems to be the perfect trade off as almost every recording I own sounds very nice.

    The punch and attack in those speakers are insane, same goes for the detail level and sweetness of the horn with good recordings. I spend every chance I can listening to music these days, with a good glass/bottle of wine of course

    Oh, I last thing, I have also replaces all my cables with Chord Clearwater series

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