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Thread: JBL 4367 first listen

  1. #1
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    JBL 4367 first listen

    Just got them in today. The large packing containers insinuate the speakers are much bigger than they really are. They are easy to un-box and one person can do it although two is better. The multi-lingual owners manual is about 3/8's of an inch thick although only about 4-6 pages of it are in English. I did not check but finding setup instructions in Swahili toward the back might be possible.

    Fresh out of the box with no break in time here is what I noticed after about of 1 hour of listening. I used a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, ARC REF-5 preamp and Krell DUO 300 amplifier with the speaker baffles setup about 4.5 feet off the long wall in a 24 x 22 foot irregularly shaped room about 12 feet away. My initial impression was that they were boxy as well as muffled sounding and reserved in the midrange, unusual for a horn speaker. Also a low stereo image. Given that the center of the high frequency horn is only about 33 inches off the ground this did not surprise me. I was concerned about them being too low to the ground from the get go so I expected to have to improvise some sort of a riser for them. Getting them off the ground 3.75 inches (on 2x4's for now) made a very noticeable improvement reducing the above mentioned colorations. My guess is that a taller (TBD) riser will be better yet.

    They have snappy effortless sounding bass with some extra emphasis between 150-250hz (my guess-not measured) that could go away or be reduced with some break in time. Although I did not have time to try it, a position slightly closer to the back wall, due to higher cancellation frequencies, might ultimately provide a more linear bottom end, say around 3.5 feet out. They do not "disappear" as well as the Array 1000/1400 probably due to the wider baffle. In this way they are more like the S4700 or the Everest. Very dynamic and other than the 150-250hz region they sound very balanced and extended. I am guessing that I will find this speaker pretty free of listener fatigue. Some sort of stand or riser will be mandatory with height to be determined by each individual listener.

    One final note. I ordered this pair in the walnut finish which are supposed to come with the dark blue grilles as opposed to the black grilles if one orders the black ash finish. Lucky me I received one grille of each color! So I get to compare side by side before I ultimately chose a replacement blue or black grille. The blue grille has a lot of gray in it. It does not look obviously "dark JBL blue" like I thought it would. Either is handsome. Fit and finish was very good. The walnut grain had more texture and sheen than JBL's walnut cabinets from the 70's.

    More comments to come after break in and more experimentation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report!
    What is the height of your ceiling?

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    Senior Member audiomagnate's Avatar
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    So you listened to them sitting on the floor and then raised them up 3.75 inches? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure these aren't floor standing speakers. I think you need to get the center of the horn close to ear level to give them a fair evaluation.

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    Thanks for the report!

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    Yes, the horn goes at ear height when seated in the normal listening position. G.T. mentioned that nearly everyone preferred the "4367 slightly better than the 4365". I guess it would be kind of nutty if it sounded worse. The components are definitely less expensive than the 4365 components. 1501Fe versus 2216Nd-1, 476Mg and 045Ti versus D2430K. Regardless, both systems are very nice, especially if one doesn't want to "hassle" with the additional setup required with the M2.

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    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Thanks for the review. I look forward to hearing more and possibly Picts?

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    I am still looking to find or make the proper stand/riser for them. I realize the horn needs to be at ear level and that the 2x4's are too short, but it was all I had at the moment and I could not wait to hear them.

    I never heard the 4365 so I can't comment on the sound quality differences compared to the 4367's.

    The ceiling height is a suspended ceiling at 9.5 feet as the room is in my audio store. Dozens of high end speakers have been auditioned in this room over the years, so despite it's problems, at least I am familiar with it's acoustics.

    A couple of quick measurements with my Audio Control 3051 real time analyzer this morning showed a smoother response at 3.75 feet off the back wall versus the peaky 160hz range using the 4.5 foot where I started (where most speakers seem to work best). The 3.75 foot position was pretty linear from 50 to 400 hz but with a fairly sharp roll off of 6-8db at 40hz relative to the bass in the 50-100hz region. The overall bass response was elevated relative to the midrange (above 800hz) about 3-4db. I expect the proper height stand to mitigate most if not all of this.

    The loss of bass at 40hz is more of a concern. Perhaps I still have not found the sweet spot for these in the room yet. However I have some concern that the 4367 may have been tuned/voiced for the Japanese market which favors a curve that smoothly rolls off the deep bass at some hinge point in the mid bass. If this is the case, EQ will be necessary for me to achieve the tonal balance I expected. Flat to 40hz is important as it is low E on the commonly used standard 4 string electric bass guitar.

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    Interesting!

    The M2 does have the +4 or +5 dB PEQ bump at ~ 22 to 24 Hz if I remember correctly and G.T. has always maintained that his newer systems can use a few dB of boost on the bottom end for the North American market. So a bit of boost on the bottom for the passive 4367 should work just fine. Some folks are going to EQ the system for a room anyway so it isn't a problem.

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    Ok. I finally bought a pair of moving carts (with casters) 7 inches tall that work well as temporary risers for the 4367's and also makes trying new speaker positions easy. The center of the midrange horn is now at 38 inches at the same height as my ears.

    At least in my room, these speakers do not like to be pulled far into the room like a lot of audiophile speakers do. A lot of pro monitors are mounted near or in walls so maybe their design reflects this. I am now tinkering with between 36 and 40 inches from the baffle off the back wall and measurements from my 1/3 octave analyzer show a much smoother response overall. The risers contribute hugely to a smoother transition (both in listening and measuring) from the bass through the midrange. No surprise here but a welcome outcome.

    I must say, the clarity, definition, snap and dynamics are impressive, in the same ballpark as my DD67 Everest's, although the effect is different. They clearly have low bass distortion as well which makes tolerating the below mentioned bass problem easier because the woofer is so incredibly proficient. Like a sports car with lots of horsepower that naturally wants to go fast, these speakers play loud effortlessly. They really boogie.

    THE PROBLEM IS that even after lots of placement experimentation and utilizing the riser, the frequency response of this speaker is not flat in the bottom end. The range from 80-160 hz is up 4-6db compared to 50hz and 200-250hz on either side. The output at 40 hz has come up from where it was earlier with the speakers further into the room, but it is still 6 down from 50hz. There is a spread of at least 10db or so between 40hz and 100hz. I've measured and listened to a lot of speakers in this room over the years and believe most of this to be a trait of the speaker. It's very audible and I am frankly bothered by why a PRO JBL speaker so accurate in all other areas would have such an obvious bass hump built in. EQ will be necessary (not a deal breaker for me as EQ is everywhere in audio if you look for it) unless I can find a substantially more linear response curve in a different location, which I doubt at this point.

    Going from memory, in the midrange and treble there is a slightly shelved down area from around the 700hz crossover to around 3khz and then it picks back up a few db staying flat until around 8khz then another slight shelving down ultimately ending with a mild peak in the treble around 16khz. 20khz is still on line with the 10-12khz region. This makes them sound slightly mid treble bright and a bit lacking in refinement and smoothness compared to the Everest's, which also have better high frequency detail. I have not played with the level controls on the front of the speaker yet, so it might be possible to tweak here rather easily. Still this is very good measured in room performance. Even at moderately loud levels I find listener fatigue quite low despite the slight mid treble brightness.

    More experimentation to come!

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    I'll try and post the measured curves tomorrow so you can see what the target system design was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpw View Post
    THE PROBLEM IS that even after lots of placement experimentation and utilizing the riser, the frequency response of this speaker is not flat in the bottom end. The range from 80-160 hz is up 4-6db compared to 50hz and 200-250hz on either side. The output at 40 hz has come up from where it was earlier with the speakers further into the room, but it is still 6 down from 50hz. There is a spread of at least 10db or so between 40hz and 100hz. I've measured and listened to a lot of speakers in this room over the years and believe most of this to be a trait of the speaker. It's very audible and I am frankly bothered by why a PRO JBL speaker so accurate in all other areas would have such an obvious bass hump built in. EQ will be necessary (not a deal breaker for me as EQ is everywhere in audio if you look for it) unless I can find a substantially more linear response curve in a different location, which I doubt at this point.
    Hallo!

    First I would like to say, Congrats on your new speakers.

    I have to correct you here regarding the freq response of the speaker you wrote here. I do not belive that there is a problem with the speakers freq response. All this problem you describe here is due to your room freq response that affects the behaviour of how the speakers sounds in your room. Yet, I have not seen how your room looks like or if you have some acoustical treatment.

    I am not using any EQ in my 4365 to correct for room anomalies.

    All I want to say is, don't blame the speaker, blame your room acoustics.

    Happy listening

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
    All I want to say is, don't blame the speaker, blame your room acoustics.
    I am sure you're right that the room is playing a huge part in this, however his point was that he has listened to many, many systems in this room so he is pretty familiar with what the room is contributing.


    Widget

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    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I am sure you're right that the room is playing a huge part in this, however his point was that he has listened to many, many systems in this room so he is pretty familiar with what the room is contributing.


    Widget
    Yes, I understand. if I remove my treatment where I have my 4365 it will shure sound differen't, but, I will not blame the speaker.

    I am referring to what "jpw" wrote, "the frequency response of this speaker is not flat in the bottom end."


  14. #14
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpw View Post
    I am still looking to find or make the proper stand/riser for them. I realize the horn needs to be at ear level and that the 2x4's are too short, but it was all I had at the moment and I could not wait to hear them.

    I never heard the 4365 so I can't comment on the sound quality differences compared to the 4367's.

    The ceiling height is a suspended ceiling at 9.5 feet as the room is in my audio store. Dozens of high end speakers have been auditioned in this room over the years, so despite it's problems, at least I am familiar with it's acoustics.

    A couple of quick measurements with my Audio Control 3051 real time analyzer this morning showed a smoother response at 3.75 feet off the back wall versus the peaky 160hz range using the 4.5 foot where I started (where most speakers seem to work best). The 3.75 foot position was pretty linear from 50 to 400 hz but with a fairly sharp roll off of 6-8db at 40hz relative to the bass in the 50-100hz region. The overall bass response was elevated relative to the midrange (above 800hz) about 3-4db. I expect the proper height stand to mitigate most if not all of this.

    The loss of bass at 40hz is more of a concern. Perhaps I still have not found the sweet spot for these in the room yet. However I have some concern that the 4367 may have been tuned/voiced for the Japanese market which favors a curve that smoothly rolls off the deep bass at some hinge point in the mid bass. If this is the case, EQ will be necessary for me to achieve the tonal balance I expected. Flat to 40hz is important as it is low E on the commonly used standard 4 string electric bass guitar.
    l had a somewhat similar issue in my lounge room.

    I tried to move out the speakers but it traded one issue for another.

    In the end I moved the listening chairs in and the speakers to the point where l was happy with the bass and the imaging.

    The large woofer and horn height restrict Vertical movement so while it may not look like an option moving the listening position may bring some surprises. Alternatively you could raise them another 4 inches and tlit the cabinet forward slightly.

    Now l have no issue with the speakers and the chairs where they are and its sounds really impressive.

    If you need to do eq there are some reasonable priced Klark teknic 30 band graphic equalisers on EBay that might be worth considering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I'll try and post the measured curves tomorrow so you can see what the target system design was.
    Here you go!
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