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Thread: JBL 4367 first listen

  1. #286
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Thankyou for your well considered and thoughtful response.

    (Hope you didn’t get slammed too hard by the PR department widgets.)

    I doubt any of them would be aware of the forums but Google search is. Particularly if your search patterns include Jbl or M2. Google algorithms have become smart and create your world. This was subject of a discussion with Obhama on Letterman’s recent Netflix interview with Obhama.

    I agree with your point on the naming of diy attempts at Jbl clones. In particular the diy model name reference to current production needs some thought.

    We are now seeing 43xx naming of systems using not just alternate Jbl drivers but XYZ brand drivers. But don’t you think Jbl have made a rod for their own backs by turning off supply of a number of genuine Jbl re cone kits like the 2122H. That was really dumb.

    Concerning technical insights in the past we have been very fortunate to have had something of a solid technical insight for diy clones of the vintage 43xx and 4344 series and to a certain extent the Array series, the S9800 and the DD66000.

    So if we are looking at it from the diy builders perspective on the M2 the diy builder is either going to complete Charles Sprinkle’s M2 tick sheet with a stamp of approval to validate his M2 diy system (Sprinkle would possibly be flattered given the hard yards he’s done).

    Or

    The diy person does not know what does not know (unfortunately) concerning the fine but important details that impact on the M2 performance and calls his project something else.

  2. #287
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    I am a bit intrigued by the review stating that 4367 sounds much better than M2, in the same room and with the same equipment.

    I am guessing here about differences:

    Crossover, digital vs passive. Digital should win here? Or maybe it is a "passive sound" more analogue in some way, that is prefered by this listener?

    Horn, wider dispersion vs narrover dispersion and deeper horn. This gives maybe 4367 a more dynamic sound, more directive avoiding some nasty wall reflections in that setup? But M2 should be more even dispersion, and straighter more even directivity index. Maybe this is the main sound difference, the horn?

    Cabinett. I can not see any main difference here that should make big difference. Maybe woofer height is significantly different, and hence interacts with the current room a bit differently?

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    I am a bit intrigued by the review stating that 4367 sounds much better than M2, in the same room and with the same equipment.
    Where was this review you’re referring to?

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage57 View Post
    Where was this review you’re referring to?
    It was on Norweigan forum hifisentralen.no. I do not have direct link right now. It was also mentioned in this forum in some thread.

  5. #290
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post412602

    It is probably hazardous to judge the listening conditions from a single photo but does not look ideal, especially for the 4367 by the way (not raised off the floor as intended, and in a corner!).

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by DallasJustice View Post
    No. The 900u is a very quiet amp.
    http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?...nts&Itemid=154

    All of the Luxman amps I’ve heard in my room have been quiet. There may be something wrong with it. Maybe the trafo came loose and needs to be tightened.
    That is possible. The store said that they didn't hear any transformer noise prior to me borrowing it.
    What makes me a little confused about the m900u is the noise balanced vs unbalanced. -84.7dBW/-84.6dBW vs -96.4dBW/-97.0dBW. I did not like the sound of the 550AX so will probably skip m900u altogether.

  7. #292
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Could be your local mains has noise on it from air conditioning causing power factor correction. This is a source of transformer mechanical noise. Are you using a mains power conditioner?

  8. #293
    Senior Member baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post412602

    It is probably hazardous to judge the listening conditions from a single photo but does not look ideal, especially for the 4367 by the way (not raised off the floor as intended, and in a corner!).
    I don't think this is an issue, the owner (he's a JBL Synthesis dealer) moves them wherever you want, and one can also bring own amp to try them. When I asked if the amps (JBL Syntheses vs ML) could be an issue, he said it was no problem running Crown on 4367, and he have tried and as far as I understood, he still meant that 4367 sounded better. Another guy who visited the same shop said the same.... I haven't been there myself. I really think it is strange that 4367 should sound better than M2, also since the passive crossover in 4365 probably is the weakest part... is the 4367 crossover that much better than 4365??

  9. #294
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Perhaps you might draw some insights from Greg Timbers interview :

    https://positive-feedback.com/interv...g-timbers-jbl/

    The M2 has the dynamics and grip with Biamping and the equalisation sorted so it will work well in a variety of rooms.

    One of the problems with the M2 is fan noise from the big Crown amps if they are in
    the same room with the listener.

    Taken from the interview and my own experience a passive system has the potential for very high resolution and transparency that is quite difficult to beat in the digital arena. Even introducing analogue active crossovers unless done with discrete class A buffers and charge - coupled RC elements they impact on the HiFi or audiophile aspects of the reproduction.

    So depending on your tolerance to some of the 4367’s warts (that Dsp removes) the 4367 may be the more appropriate choice for home listening.

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Could be your local mains has noise on it from air conditioning causing power factor correction. This is a source of transformer mechanical noise. Are you using a mains power conditioner?
    I live in a apartment, so the mains are probably very noisy. The only things I have that combat the noise are my Isotek Sirius powerstrip and WireWorld power cables. The store owner told me that he have had problems on his own, and that his refrigerator was the culprit. They have a Isotek Aquarius that I can borrow, but the problem is that I'll have to borrow the amp once more to test my mains. I plan on upgrade to the Isotek Aquarius or Sigmas when I get a new amp anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    When I asked if the amps (JBL Syntheses vs ML) could be an issue, he said it was no problem running Crown on 4367, and he have tried and as far as I understood, he still meant that 4367 sounded better. Another guy who visited the same shop said the same.... I haven't been there myself. I really think it is strange that 4367 should sound better than M2, also since the passive crossover in 4365 probably is the weakest part... is the 4367 crossover that much better than 4365??
    It could be as simple as they simply preferred the sound of the 4367. I don't know how different the 4367 and M2 sounds, but could be that 4367 sounds more like a normal speaker, and if they have a "normal speaker" as reference the 4367 will probably win. Just like comparing the sound of my Rotel amplifier against the Luxman I borrowed, listening to the Luxman felt wrong as it didn't sound as I was used to.

  11. #296
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    A learned response(s) necessitates an unlearning.
    Sounds weird but that’s how the mind works on a simplistic level. We are all creatures of habit.
    If your or my mind has a favoured illusion then that’s it.

    I think the other possibility to close the gap is DIRAC.
    I prefer to evaluate the loudspeakers inherent weaknesses then look at a specific solution.

    Obviously the M2 has room curve researched programming in the EQ.

    With the 4367 they had to pick a passive solution/ bass tuning / voicing that while “pure” from an audiophile point of view is a compromise compared to the M2.

    So if you implemented DIRAC (or DEQX Premate) on a vanilla 4367 then aside from Biamp advantages there might not be a lot in it. And the 4367 has the decor advantages. You also have the power amp of your choice or your existing amp.

    The advantages of the 4367 then start to shine.

    That pathway is far less complex than a rack full of pro signal processing required for the M2 that is over kill for most domestic listening situations. But DIRAC or DEQX Premate still puts you behind the wheel.

    I wonder if your hifi shop had that conversation with you?

    Heck l might even do that myself when the wife’s bonus comes in....Lol

    https://www.dirac.com/online-store/
    http://www.deqx.com/products/premate-plus/

  12. #297
    Senior Member baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bredin View Post
    It could be as simple as they simply preferred the sound of the 4367. I don't know how different the 4367 and M2 sounds, but could be that 4367 sounds more like a normal speaker, and if they have a "normal speaker" as reference the 4367 will probably win. Just like comparing the sound of my Rotel amplifier against the Luxman I borrowed, listening to the Luxman felt wrong as it didn't sound as I was used to.
    Isn´t everything a mather of prefered sound? There is no right or wrong There are plenty of JBL owners that says that vintage JBL sound much better than the modern, as there is opposite....

    The owner of the mentioned shop have had almost any JBL available, incl S/M9500, S9800, 43xx, 44xx, Everest ++++ he says that 4367 is the best sounding passive he have had. BUt of course I agree, it´s just a mather of taste....

  13. #298
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    He’s in business to sell you something

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    He’s in business to sell you something
    -"What's your budget?"
    -"$15K."
    -"THIS IS THE BEST PASSIVE SPEAKER I'VE EVER HEARD."

  15. #300
    Senior Member baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    He’s in business to sell you something
    Ok!

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