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Thread: Project M2 DIY Thread

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm51555 View Post
    Does anyone how close this network is to being a drop in to the M2? I know both use the same D2 and the 2216nd's are somewhat similar, but I don't want to assume it would be a lock because of the differences in 2216's and the waveguide. I went back to read the post Mr Timbers gave on the 4367 and originally missed this statement about passive systems and I got to thinking about building a pair.
    The quick "fix" is to:
    1. Change R9 from 3.6 ohms to something like 10 ohms. This props up the response in the 1k to 2k region.
    2. Add a 30 ohm rheostat ala 4430 right before C7 and set it to something around 20 ohms and viola! flat as a frozen pond. We can call it R10 This affects the response on the top end, otherwise it would be too hot.
    Basically you would play around with these two values along with the two switches to get it how you want it (I set the switches to C8 and R6 for example and that looked flat).

    Once I get better response data there is a good chance that I will look at this again. If you really want to try it though just build a cheapie non-cc version and try it out (only if you have money to blow, you know, for the sake of science).

  2. #227
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    The quick "fix" is to:
    1. Change R9 from 3.6 ohms to something like 10 ohms. This props up the response in the 1k to 2k region.
    2. Add a 30 ohm rheostat ala 4430 right before C7 and set it to something around 20 ohms and viola! flat as a frozen pond. We can call it R10 This affects the response on the top end, otherwise it would be too hot.
    Basically you would play around with these two values along with the two switches to get it how you want it (I set the switches to C8 and R6 for example and that looked flat).

    Once I get better response data there is a good chance that I will look at this again. If you really want to try it though just build a cheapie non-cc version and try it out (only if you have money to blow, you know, for the sake of science).

    Thanks for posting this, I have a couple of other things I need to shore up but would like try this.

  3. #228
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    M2 Driver Plate Modification

    Since I started this project I wanted to try one of the large format drivers on my DIY M2. This requires a modification to the mounting plate so it would accept countersunk screws. I'm not a machinist but I wanted to document what I used just in the event someone else wants to do the same.

    I started off by using a 90 degree, 1/2" counter sink bit attached to a cordless drill (In my case the drill was attached to a Flex Arm, but a standard drill will work). Use of aluminum cutting fluid is needed. I started off by adding couple of drops and adding more when necessary. When cutting the countersink the bit should moving slow and putting downward force on drill to put pressure on the bit is necessary. The plate was held down by a drill press vise.

    I had a machinist buddy guide me with the above process. He also told me the drill press wasn't the best choice here because if you are not centered your countersink would be less than perfect.

    I was able to pick up 2450SL's so the driver mounting holes didn't need attention. Bolts used were M6x1.0 35mm from Fastenal

    Hope this helps,
    Scott

  4. #229
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Helpful info indeed, esp. the hardware info.

    My own choice (given what I have) would be to use the drill press,
    accurately index/center the workpiece with a matched drill, then clamp,
    swap bits, and have at it...perhaps more work than with a flex arm
    (nice to have that available!), but a nice round/centered countersink
    is more likely vs handheld.

    Happy to hear it worked out.

  5. #230
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    I was looking over the low pass side of the 4376 network didn't see any nodes on the capacitor side after D1 so does that indicate C1-C4 all have the some connection point to D1 or is this a mistake? Thanks, Scott

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  6. #231
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    All connected. Could have done it with two caps, but perhaps the design wasn't a standard value or the cap physical size was an issue.

  7. #232
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    GT used electrolytics for the larger values and put them in parallel with smaller Solen caps to achieve the correct total capacitance. It is a way to cut down on cost and size.

  8. #233
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    I may be late to the party, but I finally did a thing!





    I'm waiting for foam tape to seal the waveguides...can't wait to hear 'em!

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I may be late to the party, but I finally did a thing!





    I'm waiting for foam tape to seal the waveguides...can't wait to hear 'em!
    Very nice looking

  10. #235
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Aaron,those look great!! I really like the contrast between the veneer and those silver feet.

  11. #236
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    Oh darn, I knew I forgot something...veneer!
    Oh well, perhaps this winter I'll get the top & sides covered in walnut.

    But anyway, yes: the aluminum feet turned out better than I'd hoped.

  12. #237
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    Crown dci 4300N vs iTech 5000hd

    Yesterday I had the pleasure on meeting up with fellow Wisconsin member Aaron and he was kind enough to bring his Crown iTech 5000hd's. Given it was a weekday we weren't able to perform a single speaker mono test as recommended by Floyd Toole. Instead we did it old school and played a few songs, switched amplifiers, and then replayed the same set of songs after the amp switch. I must admit since these beauties were here in my listening room for a limited time only I requested to hear the 5000hd more. Plus I was very familiar with the dci already. With the exception of the power potential of the 5000hd, I didn't hear any difference between the two and feel the dci is an economical choice for home listening. Both delivered clean sound and plenty of power needed for me.

    The dci used a EC-V for a volume control and the 5000hd was controlled by a Yamaha integrated amp.

    Thanks,
    Scott

  13. #238
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    Passive Crossover

    Below is a modified version of the 4367 network for use on the M2 system as instructed by 4313b here.

    I have two remaining questions:
    1) Can I use a pot and DMM to set S1's HF, I really don't want to fiddle around with all of the resistors if not needed.

    2) How much modification would this network need for the 2450sl/be's. Same inductors but different resistor or cap values. I'd really like to try this combo out also one day.

    Thanks,
    Scott

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  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm51555 View Post
    Below is a modified version of the 4367 network for use on the M2 system as instructed by 4313b here.

    I have two remaining questions:
    1) Can I use a pot and DMM to set S1's HF, I really don't want to fiddle around with all of the resistors if not needed.

    2) How much modification would this network need for the 2450sl/be's. Same inductors but different resistor or cap values. I'd really like to try this combo out also one day.

    Thanks,
    Scott

    Name:  HP.JPG
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    Not to spoil your plans, but the 2216nd and the 2216nd-1 seems to have quite different frequency responses, if you consider the voltage drive for the dsp filter of the LF section of the M2, and the voltage drive for the LF section of the 4367.

    I'm betting most of this has to do with the aquaplas treatment for the 2216nd-1 - and that the passive LF filter also needs tweaking if you're using the 2216nd.

    The second thing to mention, is that the M2 waveguide and the 4367 horn have quite a difference in depth, so the phase-tracking between drivers will not be the same.

  15. #240
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the passive crossover project was more than I had to spend on an experiment. I'd like to try using my 2450sl/be's on them next. Since my amp and DSP is one unit (Crown dci 4300N) I'll need to modify the existing network for an 8 ohm load in place of the 32 ohm D2430K. With R2 having a DCR of 11 ohms and the 32 ohm of the D2430K, that gives a parallel resistance of ~8 ohms. Does removing the 11 ohm resistor out of the circuit when the 8 ohm D2430K provided the some functionality as before with the 11 ohm and D2430K? I'd like to still have the "padding" as before so I don't hear the amp's noise when music is not playing.

    Thanks,
    Scott

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