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Thread: Question on the "double scoop" short throw horn.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin
    Goes back to what I always say, some things work well, and sound right to the ear, in spite of not being textbook correct!
    I couldn't agree with you more, Scott! Besides, how often do we really hear live music in a so-called technically correct environment? Furthermore, I built an vacuum tube power amp a few years ago in which I "tweaked" the circuit on a bread board, and ultimately ended up with something which everybody says sounds clean, crisp and powerful (and not just to be polite either!), but has many far from perfect specs when analysed on the bench .

    Regards,
    Charley

  2. #32
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    Super Scoops

    Nice to see that so many have the scoop on scoops!

    A few thoughts at large: I have a basic understanding of the principles involved relating to vented boxes, but I am quite ignorant of the physics involved relating to rear-loaded horns. JBL describes their double scoop design as having maximum loading at 42hz--not sure what that means, but it prompted some ponderings about the effects of varying the horn volume, changing sizes and angles of baffles and fillets, changing the length of the curved path, etc. As a curiosity, say we wanted to build a dual 15 inch super scoop, making use of some of the modern 15 inch woofer designs (including subwoofers) that have greater power handling and a much larger x max than the originally recommended 2205 woofer. I would guess that some woofers with large cone mass would cause a deterioration in transient punchiness. But what if we were interested in maximum projection of bass in the 30 to 40 hz region. How could we change the loading to say, 30hz? How would we interpret the T/S parameters so as to make educated guesses at which woofers would work, with or without scoop modifications? Is there software for horns that would help predict frequency responses and cone motion? What if we wanted to use the same woofers that JBL uses in their VLF cabinets (cannot think of the model number)--could it be done? I realize that this sounds like Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor and "more power", but I like to hear some speculations and informed opinions.

    Scott

  3. #33
    Senior Member paragon's Avatar
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    4520 Plan

    Yes there is. Called "AJ-Horn" by AJ-Systems. Look at page 2 (Sim 4520-4530).
    Eckhard
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by paragon
    Yes there is. Called "AJ-Horn" by AJ-Systems. Look at page 2 (Sim 4520-4530).
    Eckhard
    Hello Eckhard,
    can you post the complete Plan from this Horn, please?
    Have you also the original 4520 Plan?
    Thanks Dieter

  5. #35
    Senior Member paragon's Avatar
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    Modified 4520

    This horn is a little bit longer, has a smaller rear chamber and throat (?) than the original 4520. But this has no effect on lower bass response . So it doesnt work better than the original.
    Plan is at page 2 of thread.

    Eckhard

  6. #36
    Senior Member paragon's Avatar
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    Sim 4520 mod.

    4520 black, 4520 mod. red
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  7. #37
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by paragon
    This horn is a little bit longer, has a smaller rear chamber and throat (?) than the original 4520. But this has no effect on lower bass response . So it doesnt work better than the original.
    Plan is at page 2 of thread.

    Eckhard
    Thanks,
    but on the Plan of page 2 are not all Measurements, special the Horncurve.
    Miss some Angel of Boards.
    Maybe you or other Members have the complete Plan?
    Dieter

  8. #38
    Senior Member paragon's Avatar
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    plan

    Mmmhhh,

    Can anybody help ?

    Eckhard

  9. #39
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    Some Sites

    Eckhard / Dieter

    Well, not exactly the plan you're after - but this should still be useful.

    (a)
    Here's essentially the plan for a 4530, but "up-sized" for 18" woofers .

    The above plan is from SpeakerPlans.com - a British sound outfit .

    (b) PA EXPONENTIAL SYSTEMS is another useful horn site from Germany that has some plans .


    regards <. Earl K

  10. #40
    Senior Member paragon's Avatar
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    plans

    Thanks Earl !

    Eckhard

  11. #41
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    Thanks Earl!

  12. #42
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Well, Ill join in too!

    Thanks Earl!

    scottyj

  13. #43
    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    Front loaded bass horns

    Can anyone comment on the merits of a front loaded bass horn? Cerwin Vega still makes several versions of this desin, where the 18" woofer has a small rear chamber and the driver fires in to a folded horn. These seem to be fairly compact and portable. Do they get low (40Hz, or so) and do they project the low bass any better then direct radiators? Would these be better for large rooms or outdoor use?
    Sunn used to make these too. (see pic)

    Thanks,

    Tom
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Loizeaux
    Can anyone comment on the merits of a front loaded bass horn? Cerwin Vega still makes several versions of this desin, where the 18" woofer has a small rear chamber and the driver fires in to a folded horn. These seem to be fairly compact and portable. Do they get low (40Hz, or so) and do they project the low bass any better then direct radiators? Would these be better for large rooms or outdoor use?
    Thanks,

    Tom
    The Cerwin Vega folded horns get down pretty low, not into the 20,s but definitely 40hz, maybe into the 30,s if you cluster four cabinets together!

    Horns project the bass out fairly far, compared to a direct radiator, and have high efficiency! They are good for dance clubs, or any event that wants high impact bottom end, they have that punch and growl.

    For a large room, or outdoor use, if you want your bottom to project out a good distance, then, yes horns are still good!

    The T-36 offers really high efficiency, power handling, and long throw, and Vega recommends using them in multiples of four to get the LF extension and mutaul coupling!
    scottyj

  15. #45
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Correction!

    The new high power model ( 1000 w ) is the EL-36, and vega rates the usable response of all three horn models from 30Hz to 300Hz!


    www.cerwinvega.com
    scottyj

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