New 2 way in the synthesis Blue bafle Line

[ngccglp]

Use EQ then, that is what you are supposed to do with the M2 (or any speaker for that matter) under ~200Hz to adapt it to the room and position.

Here is an extract of Floyd Toole's recent talk, specifically about the M2 and how it has to be adapted to any room it is installed in in the lows: https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM?list=WL&t=4342
And these rooms are all pretty big and probably have acoustic treatment...

When I auditioned the M2, it was driven by a pair of Crowns which is supposed to have the correct EQ in them, which was why I went away rather disappointed.

[Valentin]

Probably your audición was a Bad one

M2 are not bass shy I hear them evry day

[macaroonie]

Just to change direction slightly , I wonder what will show up using the smaller D2 driver the 2415K. Currently it is only in the small VTX array.
Surely a no brainer for ' bookshelf' 2 way systems with a 12" bass driver

[4313B]

When I auditioned the M2, it was driven by a pair of Crowns which is supposed to have the correct EQ in them, which was why I went away rather disappointed.

Probably your audición was a Bad one

M2 are not bass shy I hear them evry day

Yep. User Error.

[Mctwins]

Yep. User Error.

[Jonas_h]

When I auditioned the M2, it was driven by a pair of Crowns which is supposed to have the correct EQ in them, which was why I went away rather disappointed.

There is no "correct EQ" for the Crowns. There is the correct M2 speaker tuning but the correct EQ is determined by room, speaker position, listening position and treatments in the room.

[ivica]

Yep. User Error.

Hi 4313B,

Does that mean that almost ANY speaker can be EQualized to cover say 30Hz to 16kHz +/- 3dB.
If that is 'the case', why to spend so much on JBL (M2, DD, K2, 44, 43....) speakers instead to buy
decent pieces, coming from China, Thailand or Vietnam ??
+ DSP driven network ( example MiniDSP) and proper amplifier/

regards
ivica

[audiomagnate]

Hi 4313B,

Does that mean that almost ANY speaker can be EQualized to cover say 30Hz to 16kHz +/- 3dB.
If that is 'the case', why to spend so much on JBL (M2, DD, K2, 44, 43....) speakers instead to buy
decent pieces, coming from China, Thailand or Vietnam ??
+ DSP driven network ( example MiniDSP) and proper amplifier/

regards
ivica

You can't EQ out resonances and other gross colorations caused by acoustic anomolies. They are going to get excited and do their thing no matter what.

[4313B]

Does that mean

It means there is nothing wrong with the M2...

There is no "correct EQ" for the Crowns. There is the correct M2 speaker tuning but the correct EQ is determined by room, speaker position, listening position and treatments in the room.

Jonas seems to "get it". That guy who wiped everything (M2 settings) so he could start from scratch obviously did not...

You can't EQ out resonances and other gross colorations caused by acoustic anomolies. They are going to get excited and do their thing no matter what.

That is why Pro made the M2 box as resonance free as possible.

[Mr. Widget]

Hi 4313B,

Does that mean that almost ANY speaker can be EQualized to cover say 30Hz to 16kHz +/- 3dB.
If that is 'the case', why to spend so much on JBL (M2, DD, K2, 44, 43....) speakers instead to buy
decent pieces, coming from China, Thailand or Vietnam ??
+ DSP driven network ( example MiniDSP) and proper amplifier/

regards
ivica

I bet there are many folks who wonder about this.

1. Yes, virtually ANY speaker can be equalized to be flat +/- 3dB between 30Hz and 16KHz on axis. There will be power and max SPL restrictions with many, but the curve can be quite flat with careful and intelligent use of EQ.

2. Why then should someone buy a more expensive speaker? The simple answer is that any two speakers that are carefully equalized to have virtually identical on axis responses will still not sound the same. The system's distortion characteristics, dispersion pattern (off axis performance), transient response, and many, many other performance characteristics have just as significant impact on the subjective listening experience as the on axis frequency response.


Widget

[Valentin]

"dispersion pattern (off axis performance)"

canot be corrected via EQ That simple

[Ed Zeppeli]

Hi 4313B,

Does that mean that almost ANY speaker can be EQualized to cover say 30Hz to 16kHz +/- 3dB.
If that is 'the case', why to spend so much on JBL (M2, DD, K2, 44, 43....) speakers instead to buy
decent pieces, coming from China, Thailand or Vietnam ??
+ DSP driven network ( example MiniDSP) and proper amplifier/

regards
ivica

If you have the time Ivica, check this out. It explained a lot to me about off-axis response and measurements relative to listeners' experience using Harman equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

[ivica]

If you have the time Ivica, check this out. It explained a lot to me about off-axis response and measurements relative to listeners' experience using Harman equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

Hi Ed Zeppeli,

Thank You for the link.
If talking about the off-axis response, having in mind using cone drivers for the bass and mid-bass drivers, and horn 'loaded' compression drivers, their off-axis responses are mainly influenced with their dimensions and the horn-wall sides 'flare', but , from my experience drivers of the same size have different sound character, even they are "EQualized" applying home 'listening levels'.

regards
ivica

[4313B]

The woofer looks very much like a 2216nd. Maybe a "passive crossover friendly" version with a lower fs?
I think 4313B mentioned that some variants of the 2216nd were coming...

~ 10 grams of mass added via aquaplas on the rear of the cone reducing Fs to ~ 28 Hz along with a modified edge treatment on the cloth surround. Well controlled and very consistent with very good performance.

476Mg or D2430K? Or something new?

It is the same D2430K as in the M2. The 476Mg is considerably more expensive, the system would never make the intended price point with the 476Mg.