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Thread: JBL L100 quadrex grills foam

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by durendal View Post
    Hi guys,

    Right now I'm not sure who is more off topic
    Me or yours discussions?

    I'm after first tests and now I'm waiting for the right materials.

    Attachment 67682
    Please accept my apology, sincerely.

    The grille insert looks beautiful! With all the obstacles being thrown in your way via this thread, what and how was your final decision made regarding dimensions?

    Did you solve the height question?

    You may send me my sample promotional pair anytime you wish, I will PM you my address.
    (any color you choose for me will be fine, but the orange best matches my eyes)

  2. #47
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Quoting DingDing: Just to be clear I'm not an angel investor, but will you give a ball park figure of how much are you looking for, just to put a number on it. Also, this is not meant to be condescending. I'm just saying it like I see it, and hopefully there's some value in it.

    LET'S SAY A MINIMUM OF $500-1000/MO FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS TO HELP COVER SOME OF THE RECENTLY ADDED OVERHEAD EXPENSES WHILE SOLUTIONS TO THE PRODUCTION PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

    Bankers and professional investors are smart money and they not only invest in your product and its potential, but in you. If you present the investment opportunity as how it will benefit you in the manufacturing and daily operations they frankly won't give a shit. They want to know how big the market is, your cash flow, balance sheet, earlier results, estimated growth, margins, how much profit you can make, basically the risk and ROI for them and data to back it up.

    You have to make your presentation all about them, concatenating all of your needs into 'raw materials, inventory and machinery'. An investor doesn't care about you, they care about making profits. If you've been at this for a number of years but haven't gotten anywhere they're going to be skeptical. If they ask you why you haven't come any further and you start bashing circumstances etc, they see that as a big red flag and they're off.

    AS I MENTIONED, IT'S MORE UNDER-CAPITALIZATION AND LACK OF ANY GOOD HELP (such as a good partner familiar with the market).

    An investor needs to see someone who are able to take full responsibility. Remember that everyone asking for investments are confident their opportunity is solid as gold. Likewise, every investor is skeptical. One question they will ask you is: "Ok, and if this hits off, what will hinder someone else from setting up shop and pushing the prices down?"

    BECAUSE I AM WAY AHEAD OF THEM ON THE LEARNING AND MARKETING CURVE.

    and "Are you allowed to use JBL's branding in your marketing without risk of lawsuit if you grow big?".

    THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM AS THE PRODUCT IS NOT "LABELED" WITH THE JBL NAME.

    I looked at your crowd funding campaign and I'm sorry to say it sucked. You need to make a video presenting yourself and your product and have pretty pictures of your product. Maybe contact earlier customers and ask for some pictures of the products in use so you can show them off. Also, from all your earlier and waiting customers you should build an email list. If you have a lot of people interested in your product why not put some effort into a campaign and ship off some promoting emails to all those people you've served and turned down? Just make it about the grilles and give them an offer which is hard to refuse. Show your passion for the product and the excellence of it. Customers will relate to that, as they are also passionate about their speakers.
    Not saying that this will put you where you want to be, but it's an idea. Go look at the successful crowdfunding campaigns, it's all about offers and emotions.

    WAY OVER MY HEAD DOING ALL THAT BY MYSELF!! BUT I MAY HAVE SOMEONE HIRED SOON THAT COULD DO A BETTER JOB (UNDERSTANDS THE PROCESS BETTER).

  3. #48
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

    Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

    Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

    Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

    What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

    From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

    Lee
    Well, AGAIN I have to say "if it was only so easy" (or in other words, been there, tried that!)! I have submitted dimensions of the L100 grilles to several large foam fabricators and they could not produce as good a product as I do myself. Yes they could produce in quantities but the quality just wasn't there. Believe me, I've just about tried everything.

    Starting work right now on a new faster manual setup for making the grilles - but wish me luck !

    A few personal notes: For as long as I've been in business, I have lived (and still do) WELL below the poverty level barely eking out a living. Haven't had a vacation in over 10 years (and that wasn't much); take very little time off for "fun". Only companionship is a 15 year old cat. Always have had to work with second (or third) hand computers and have constant problems using one/working on line* yet I pay over $110/mo (and always going up!) for just phone + (slow & aggravating/rural location) internet!

    Just in case anyone thinks I'm lazy or living high.

    *Even now as I try to add this!

  4. #49
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    Based on what you're saying I don't think you need luck, you just need to be a sweat shop and get on with it, spending every minute you can making the grilles until you have the capital to automate some of the processes. Obsessing over how you would like everything to run as smooth as a Toyota production line won't get you anywhere right now it seems. I think you may be letting your inner perfectionist stand in your way here.

    You may want to think in terms of evolution instead of revolution, making each iteration of your operation faster and better. Which seems exactly like what you're doing with your new setup. Bravo!

    If you already have a lot of demand, you won't even need fancy campaigns, you just need to make product and get it out there. People will post pictures and write about you on the internets and people will find you with a simple google search. After all, most of your customers will probably be looking for your product actively.

    All of this is so Captain Obvious I'm almost embarrassed to write it...

    A book I enjoyed a lot is http://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisit.../dp/0887307280

    It will help you analyze your own situation, thinking processes and possibly motivate you. I think it will ring deeply with your desire for perfection and turn key operations. It certainly did for me.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Ah, the life of the ramblin' man, bachelor genius!
    A veritable Renaissance Man
    How lucky you are, I am so envious!
    And generous enough too! "Sharing" on a public forum his impressive profit margins and sales figures! Only 15-40% in materials, transportation AND labor? THAT IS IMPRESSIVE! With such low overhead I imagine the tax man loves to see you every year though .

    Why thank you, I think I shall!

    It was a simple question, your machinery or facility or someone else's?

    If I am understanding you correctly, you have no manufacturing business, you have no manufacturing capability, rather you are part of the new "services and information" economy and that's cool too.
    So when your friends with the lathes go under then you can sub out your bits to someone else or better yet to someone in china. Correct?

    The new ways help keep things exciting, huh?!

    Do you by chance have actual machinist's skills (hands on)? Or are you simply the visionary?

    Hope you are able to find another as equitable arraignment as whatever it is you are reluctant to share with me here, if that time ever comes.

    Maybe something like this?:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

    All kidding aside:
    Your grand business acumen doesn't apply to "sonofagun"s" wants, needs or woes, whether you agree with his attitude or methodology or not, apples to oranges.

    You subcontract, with little to zero capital expenditures in fixed assets, that's all you had to say.

    Not patronizing to make things clear: what "sonofagun" wants is an entirely different animal from your sublet new world hustle. Much more visible too.

    Not interested in your motorcycle parts business, but I will say this since you regaled us with your business prowess; it is much easier to sell custom fabrication problem solvers for bikes than foam speaker grilles, I guarantee you that.
    (I have more than 40 years in the carriage trade)
    Probably 1000x the market or more, maybe 10,000x.

    You may wish to consider licensing or selling your brilliant ideas as well and walk away a bazillionaire, ridding yourself of any and all legal liabilities to boot.
    ESPECIALLY if you are selling auto and motorcycle parts into the U.S.A. for the purposes of modification or deviating from the manufacturer's original design. Our DOT, EPA and IRS can be rabid at times, not to mention the personal injury attorneys! And California? Forget about it; deep pockets here too, all the way!

    Then you could ride your bike 7 days a week, without a care in the world except how to carry all that money on that bike or where to put it! (don't know what you make for autos, but I am sure you know those disclaimers for off road use don't mean shit in court)

    As for the 1% comment and how surprised I'd be at what you know about running a business? I'm not certain I follow you there; why do you think I would be interested?

    I'm not and I wasn't.

    When you made a decided argument against EVERY suggestion made in your turntable isolation thread, by more than a few posters, it became crystal clear to me that you are a know it all and are just not going to change any position on anything if you think you are right.
    And THAT'S cool too.
    Some people find that quality attractive, the "rugged individual" as it were.
    But it is also why your Technics SL-1200 isolation system will never go any further than this forum and the handful of guinea pigs you have comped.
    You might sell 100 of them if you're incredibly lucky.

    But as you've brought it up and criticized "sonofagun"'s efforts so readily, what IS your "brick and mortar" enterprise?

    And how aggravating/arduous a task is it dealing with/paying your tax liability here in the U.S.A.? What's the rate?

    Lastly, what is your line of bike and auto parts? (company or parts name?) Are you on anyone's line-card here in Northern California?

    Might have some feedback for ya!
    Wow. Looks like Wagner shouldn't stop taking his medication. And it even becomes extremely funny. Just don't stop your stand-up comic routine dude. It is quite entertaining... Especially that all your ass-umptions are totally wrong...

  6. #51
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Pleasae Do Not Feed The Troll!!

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  7. #52
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    Based on what you're saying I don't think you need luck, you just need to be a sweat shop and get on with it, spending every minute you can making the grilles until you have the capital to automate some of the processes. Obsessing over how you would like everything to run as smooth as a Toyota production line won't get you anywhere right now it seems. I think you may be letting your inner perfectionist stand in your way here.

    You may want to think in terms of evolution instead of revolution, making each iteration of your operation faster and better. Which seems exactly like what you're doing with your new setup. Bravo!

    If you already have a lot of demand, you won't even need fancy campaigns, you just need to make product and get it out there. People will post pictures and write about you on the internets and people will find you with a simple google search. After all, most of your customers will probably be looking for your product actively.

    All of this is so Captain Obvious I'm almost embarrassed to write it...

    A book I enjoyed a lot is http://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisit.../dp/0887307280

    It will help you analyze your own situation, thinking processes and possibly motivate you. I think it will ring deeply with your desire for perfection and turn key operations. It certainly did for me.
    Well you (and others) can "armchair quarterback" this all you want but try walking in my shoes for a while and see how far you get. That's enough please - I need REAL help here, not advice.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofagun View Post
    Well you (and others) can "armchair quarterback" this all you want but try walking in my shoes for a while and see how far you get. That's enough please
    Very sorry, didn't mean to insult you. I know what it's like running a small operation myself.

  9. #54
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??
    well, it's always been rather "in style" around here to bash L-100's. I've done it in the past, but some of the snarky set will do it forever.

    I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now. Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

    Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain.

    Oh yeah, I turned up the FUN knob and turned down the FAKE one

    topic tie-in: 4311b's with quadrex grille
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    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    well, it's always been rather "in style" around here to bash L-100's. I've done it in the past, but some of the snarky set will do it forever.

    I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now. Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

    Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain.

    Oh yeah, I turned up the FUN knob and turned down the FAKE one

    topic tie-in: 4311b's with quadrex grille
    Yeah, but that's some of that thar Radio Shack FAKE "Quadrex" there Buddy!

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now.
    Next time you are able, please do the 1.5V test at the input terminals and tell me which way your woofers move.
    Would be of great assistance and maybe I'll stop thinking about this losing game for a while.
    Would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Thomas

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

    Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain.
    Sound pretty damn good too with a good tube amp, 30 watts or better. With a bigger bottle like the 7591 they will play way outside the boxes and it's smooth.

  13. #58
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    Fix the foam in the frame

    Thinking about ordering foam to my L100s.
    But how on earth is the foam fixed to the frame?
    No velcro, no tight countersink...

  14. #59
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Glue.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ll=1#post26698

    Take note of Sonofagun's advice to have the foam facing up while curing, so that glue doesn't flow onto the front of the grille.

  15. #60
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Business update

    Am willing to relocate to partner with anyone interested in the grille business - lots of $$ to be made!

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