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Thread: JBL L100 quadrex grills foam

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Sheesh. I go away for a couple of hours to earn a living and you guys go ape-shit! The comment on whatever my "style" is isn't deserving of an reply. Stupid is as stupid does.

    "Fake-but-fun" was the revered Zilch's descriptive sobriquet for the L100 Century and their ilk. It's become well accepted as a perfect description of what makes the L100 the L100. I grew up with L100s and never liked them when they were new. I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. They earned and deserve their place in history and their reputation. All the rest of the comments in this thread related to the term are pretty much horse shit, but you get what you pay for around here when the bandwidth is monopolized by those who are just angry at the world.

    Carry on, if you must. I'm relaxin' listening to my favorite JBLs!
    Yeah, and an arrogant self important ass is an ass.

    "Stupid"
    "Ilk"
    "Horse shit"
    "Angry at the world"

    I am aware of the author, and the origins, of "fake but fun". It was never meant or intended in the spirit with which you use it and you're sure as hell no "Zilch" pal.

    Very condescending you are, especially with the double talk (trying to walk your actions back, hiding behind Evan Flavell).
    When you slipped that dig in there, it was NOT in the spirit Evan intended with his affectionate descriptive of the L100; I know it (and YOU know it too)
    You used it for cover:
    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??
    See the way that is written, how awkward it reads? We all know what model we're talking about here, it's in the thread's TITLE.
    You know that too, that's what drew you in.
    You didn't qualify and credit the Zilch quote in that post when you made it, "sonofagun" had to ask you what you meant by it............so obviously it's not a universally known, or accepted quip.

    Why couldn't you simply say to the OP "hey, maybe a forum member who owns a pair of L100s can help you out with your measurements" and leave it at that?

    Why, when L100s are being discussed, can't we all be spared hearing your "position" on them with every thread? Even when the subject has NOTHING to do with their drivers OR sound or comparing them to another model..................rather, the DAMN GRILLES!

    I don't give a shit what bandwagon you are or aren't on. I could care less if you like L100s or not. Just don't need to hear it EVERY TIME the subject comes up and I bet that if I look, that will be the case with you. In fact I know it will.

    If you don't like L100s, why are you reading L100 threads? Looking to learn something new about yet another model you've either "grown up with", been around all your life or owned at least 3 pairs of?

    Your and a couple other's devotion to feeling the need to some how denigrate the model EVERY TIME IT COMES UP has grown very tiresome.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Sheesh. I go away for a couple of hours to earn a living and you guys go ape-shit! The comment on whatever my "style" is isn't deserving of an reply. Stupid is as stupid does.
    Yet, you make one anyway

    I'm actually surprised you didn't bring on your tired ass "there's better" L112 lecture for the OP's enjoyment and enlightenment

  3. #33
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  4. #34
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    I don't understand. Are you blaming non-investors for your back-orders? If so, it looks like something is wrong in your business model then. The recipe is simple. With very little funds, you make a small batch. Sell them and keep all profits to produce a bigger batch. And bigger. And bigger. Then back orders become a thing of the past. You don't need investors or a bank loan to make speaker grills.
    Oh if it was only that simple - that's pretty much what I've tried for many years but it just doesn't always work that way. Other things tend to get in the way of re-investing any profits into growing the business - silly things like food to eat, a roof over your head, car payments and insurance, gas, electric, phone, internet, etc. Now combine that with other factors such as making mistakes along the way (aka "the learning curve") which cost you $$, difficulty with suppliers (bad material; slow delivery), not understanding computers or online marketing, plus getting older every day (not to mention the resultant stress all these things introduce ). Small batches just don't generate sufficient profit to fund growth. Making these one or two at a time and MANUALLY BY HAND gets very tedious and tiresome after many years. Each requires multiple cuts and make a mistake on one cut (even the LAST one) and the piece is ruined . Tried (for over 7 years!) to build a cnc setup to eliminate manual errors and tedium but couldn't get (or afford to hire) the expertise to get it operational. Takes a minimum of $5K to get such to work or at least having the know-how to build it yourself which was/is beyond me (and a lot of so-called electronics/computer "experts" in my area I asked for help from). Everything you do or try cost you time and $$. Much easier having sufficient funding so you can do things the best, most efficient way right from the start!

    Bottom line remains - product(s) is in demand and I'm offering someone the opportunity to get involved in growing a very profitable company with unlimited growth potential in the loudspeaker business (and others). I'd think this forum would be a good place to make such an offer . Keep in mind it's just not L100 grilles I'm swamped with demand for but foam grilles for dozens of other makes and models - domestic brands and foreign (see my website). I have plans for complete loudspeaker systems as well including re-introducing an updated version of the L100 with improved construction and performance. Amazes me that no one even takes the time to thoroughly investigate and get details from me so they can make an intelligent decision. As I say (and you can quote me):

    "Nothing happens in business unless you make it happen!"

    Another thing to keep in mind - just one contract with a major speaker maker to provide them grilles could be thousands of $$ of profits but I better be big enough to handle it. Almost landed such a contract (7 figures) with a little company (initials JBL) a couple years ago .

    Final notes: I would suggest a moderator clean up this thread by removing some of the derogatory, attack posts which have no place on this forum.

    Durendal - maybe you could become my European distributor for foam grilles? Save you a lot of headaches!

  5. #35
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    About the L100

    I never have cared that much for the L100s (old ones admittedly) I've heard and when you take one apart there certainly seems to be room for improvement - i.e. better drivers, x-over design, and cabinet materials and construction.

    Also eliminate the wooden grille frame!! I've concluded most speaker manufacturers apparently give little thought to the design and incorporation of the grille with the overall design. Becomes an imperfectly designed afterthought.

    By the way, it's grilles; not grills!

  6. #36
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    Yeah!


  7. #37
    Senior Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Cute. Another cryptic post.

    Mind explaining it or are we just trying to appear clever by cluttering a discussion with nonsense?

  8. #38
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    It's a grill. No "e"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofagun View Post
    ...
    Just to be clear I'm not an angel investor, but will you give a ball park figure of how much are you looking for, just to put a number on it. Also, this is not meant to be condescending. I'm just saying it like I see it, and hopefully there's some value in it.

    Bankers and professional investors are smart money and they not only invest in your product and its potential, but in you. If you present the investment opportunity as how it will benefit you in the manufacturing and daily operations they frankly won't give a shit. They want to know how big the market is, your cash flow, balance sheet, earlier results, estimated growth, margins, how much profit you can make, basically the risk and ROI for them and data to back it up.

    You have to make your presentation all about them, concatenating all of your needs into 'raw materials, inventory and machinery'. An investor doesn't care about you, they care about making profits. If you've been at this for a number of years but haven't gotten anywhere they're going to be skeptical. If they ask you why you haven't come any further and you start bashing circumstances etc, they see that as a big red flag and they're off. An investor needs to see someone who are able to take full responsibility. Remember that everyone asking for investments are confident their opportunity is solid as gold. Likewise, every investor is skeptical. One question they will ask you is: "Ok, and if this hits off, what will hinder someone else from setting up shop and pushing the prices down?" and "Are you allowed to use JBL's branding in your marketing without risk of lawsuit if you grow big?". You need good answers to these kinds of questions.

    I looked at your crowd funding campaign and I'm sorry to say it sucked. You need to make a video presenting yourself and your product and have pretty pictures of your product. Maybe contact earlier customers and ask for some pictures of the products in use so you can show them off. Also, from all your earlier and waiting customers you should build an email list. If you have a lot of people interested in your product why not put some effort into a campaign and ship off some promoting emails to all those people you've served and turned down? Just make it about the grilles and give them an offer which is hard to refuse. Show your passion for the product and the excellence of it. Customers will relate to that, as they are also passionate about their speakers.

    Not saying that this will put you where you want to be, but it's an idea. Go look at the successful crowdfunding campaigns, it's all about offers and emotions.

    $.02

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

    Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

    Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

    Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

    What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

    From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

    Lee

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

    Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

    Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

    Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

    What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

    From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

    Lee
    That's correct, you don't understand because obviously you don't know the whole back story to "sonofagun's" Quadrex grille enterprise/efforts.
    If I am not mistaken, they may very well predate your membership here.
    In other words, you're talking out of your hat now, and hindsight advice from the kibitzers is always 20/20.

    On another note; your metal works projects, do you do them at your employer's place or is that machining operation where you fabricate your prototypes your own business?

  12. #42
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    That's correct, you don't understand because obviously you don't know the whole back story to "sonofagun's" Quadrex grille enterprise/efforts.
    If I am not mistaken, they may very well predate your membership here.
    In other words, you're talking out of your hat now, and hindsight advice from the kibitzers is always 20/20.
    Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today...

    Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    On another note; your metal works projects, do you do them at your employer's place or is that machining operation where you fabricate your prototypes your own business?
    My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

    Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.







    Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing.

    Lee

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today...

    Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.



    My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

    Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.

    ....

    Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing.

    Lee
    What?!? You didn't build that!!! Your just one of the LUCKY ONES!!! Hahaha.

    Lee you are my kind of guy.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today...

    Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.



    My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

    Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.

    Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing.

    Lee
    Ah, the life of the ramblin' man, bachelor genius!
    A veritable Renaissance Man
    How lucky you are, I am so envious!
    And generous enough too! "Sharing" on a public forum his impressive profit margins and sales figures! Only 15-40% in materials, transportation AND labor? THAT IS IMPRESSIVE! With such low overhead I imagine the tax man loves to see you every year though .
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Unless you can share you thoughts with us.
    Why thank you, I think I shall!

    It was a simple question, your machinery or facility or someone else's?

    If I am understanding you correctly, you have no manufacturing business, you have no manufacturing capability, rather you are part of the new "services and information" economy and that's cool too.
    So when your friends with the lathes go under then you can sub out your bits to someone else or better yet to someone in china. Correct?

    The new ways help keep things exciting, huh?!

    Do you by chance have actual machinist's skills (hands on)? Or are you simply the visionary?

    Hope you are able to find another as equitable arraignment as whatever it is you are reluctant to share with me here, if that time ever comes.

    Maybe something like this?:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

    All kidding aside:
    Your grand business acumen doesn't apply to "sonofagun"s" wants, needs or woes, whether you agree with his attitude or methodology or not, apples to oranges.

    You subcontract, with little to zero capital expenditures in fixed assets, that's all you had to say.

    Not patronizing to make things clear: what "sonofagun" wants is an entirely different animal from your sublet new world hustle. Much more visible too.

    Not interested in your motorcycle parts business, but I will say this since you regaled us with your business prowess; it is much easier to sell custom fabrication problem solvers for bikes than foam speaker grilles, I guarantee you that.
    (I have more than 40 years in the carriage trade)
    Probably 1000x the market or more, maybe 10,000x.

    You may wish to consider licensing or selling your brilliant ideas as well and walk away a bazillionaire, ridding yourself of any and all legal liabilities to boot.
    ESPECIALLY if you are selling auto and motorcycle parts into the U.S.A. for the purposes of modification or deviating from the manufacturer's original design. Our DOT, EPA and IRS can be rabid at times, not to mention the personal injury attorneys! And California? Forget about it; deep pockets here too, all the way!

    Then you could ride your bike 7 days a week, without a care in the world except how to carry all that money on that bike or where to put it! (don't know what you make for autos, but I am sure you know those disclaimers for off road use don't mean shit in court)

    As for the 1% comment and how surprised I'd be at what you know about running a business? I'm not certain I follow you there; why do you think I would be interested?

    I'm not and I wasn't.

    When you made a decided argument against EVERY suggestion made in your turntable isolation thread, by more than a few posters, it became crystal clear to me that you are a know it all and are just not going to change any position on anything if you think you are right.
    And THAT'S cool too.
    Some people find that quality attractive, the "rugged individual" as it were.
    But it is also why your Technics SL-1200 isolation system will never go any further than this forum and the handful of guinea pigs you have comped.
    You might sell 100 of them if you're incredibly lucky.

    But as you've brought it up and criticized "sonofagun"'s efforts so readily, what IS your "brick and mortar" enterprise?

    And how aggravating/arduous a task is it dealing with/paying your tax liability here in the U.S.A.? What's the rate?

    Lastly, what is your line of bike and auto parts? (company or parts name?) Are you on anyone's line-card here in Northern California?

    Might have some feedback for ya!

  15. #45
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    Hi guys,

    Right now I'm not sure who is more off topic
    Me or yours discussions?

    I'm after first tests and now I'm waiting for the right materials.

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