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Thread: New PA Rig complete.

  1. #1
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    New PA Rig complete.

    Here are pix from the rig I have been building for the last year. We piled it all up, yesterday. I will finish wiring today. All vintage JBL. It has been fun!
    Please offer positive feedback.
    Scott.
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    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

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    Nice, but are you figuring on people being really tall?

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    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barkingdog View Post
    Nice, but are you figuring on people being really tall?
    My first thought, too - of course after I marvelled at the scope of the project!

    If it were me, I'd move the dual 15-in(?) vertical cabinets to the top of the lowest subs, and put the horns on-top of them.

    Then, I'd move the "other" subs (??) to the top of the entire stack, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by barkingdog View Post
    Please offer positive feedback.
    Only positive...?

    - I think you've got too many subs (but that's just me - I prefer to not work against such intense LF loading of the room...). If you are utilizing a DSP, you could consider moving two of the subs out into the room somewhere - along the walls - and delaying them to the mains. Putting the subs out in the room along the side walls will reduce LF loading on stage (the artists will LOVE you) and give the audience their needed "thump-before-they-hump" (they will love you too)...

    - I worry about comb-filtering of those two horns, side-by-side. What are their dispersion characteristics?
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  4. #4
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    Here are pix from the rig I have been building for the last year. We piled it all up, yesterday. I will finish wiring today. All vintage JBL. It has been fun!
    Please offer positive feedback.
    Scott.
    Dang!!
    Who put the bomp in the
    Woomp woomp woomp woomp!

    My guess is you won't need to play very loud to fill the room!
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

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    Senior Member Baron030's Avatar
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    Wow, that’s a “Wall O’ Sound” alright.

    It looks to me like you could turn your DIY 4770a boxes upside down and it would put the HF horns at just about ear level. It’s just a thought.

    Well, I am sure you will be playing around with different stack configurations for sometime to come.

    Congratulations Scott.

    Baron030

  6. #6
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barkingdog View Post
    ]It looks to me like you could turn your DIY 4770a boxes upside down and it would put the HF horns at just about ear level. It’s just a thought.
    Yea, that was what I was trying to say...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jakob's Avatar
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    Nice work! Are the lower subs 2245 and the upper 2242's?

    I thought it was general practice to have mid and tweeters way up high like this to prevent the crowd's clothes to eat up all the highs. But hey, I'm not a PRO-guy. Just referring to how things have been on concerts I've attended. If this is too high, can't you just tilt the top boxes slightly forward?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Fred Sanford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    Here are pix from the rig I have been building for the last year. We piled it all up, yesterday. I will finish wiring today. All vintage JBL. It has been fun!
    Please offer positive feedback.
    Scott.
    Looks like fun, now go get some protective grilles on there before the gerfingerpoken und mittengrabben.

    I'd flip the full-range cabs, too.

    Too bad I want to Anchorage in '04, before I knew you were there...

    je

  9. #9
    RE: Member when? subwoof's Avatar
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    stack - n - splay

    Either stack or splay the horns. That configuration will only serve to create lobes and kill the flies on the window sills. bounce, bounce, bounce. Make grill frames and double the grill cloth for the horns. makes a nice diffusion / club sound.

    Put the subs on the sides of the room and make glass tops for them for drinks with a solid wood lip.( and delay like mentioned )

    Create small, managable stacks on each side of the stage that can be moved when the band / DJ / artist brings their ( our PA or no way ) rig.

    Put the horns at NBA ear level and put grill cloth on the woofer grills to keep the body fluids out AND get your reconing guy to put the WR coating on ALL the cones. cheap insurance.

    Put thin pine skids on the bottom of the floor level cabs so drink spooge doesn't pool underneath.

    sub

    btw - that stack's proximity to the exit doors doesn't meet code..:o)

  10. #10
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the encouragement and some great ideas!

    Just got home. 2am. I did not get to play with the tuning of the rig very much. Thursday is "scare-ee-okay" night and the KJ host was doing a pretty good job of dialing things in.

    I will respond to your post asap. Tomorrow is "Hairspray" night with the cast coming from their broadway show at the performing arts center, then to our Mad Myrna's nightclub for cast party and show. I will get things dialed in a little better during our friday night drag/variety show, then the hairspray cast comes in.

    On first impression, all is pretty good. With live vocalists and backup tracks sounded pretty good. I was playing "Unforgettable" album when Lisa got there. She really thought it was very good.

    All speakers in place. The jail bars are in front of the stacks and screwed in at the ceiling and down to the plinth block base which is up off of the floor by an inch to allow for drinks to puddle. And yes I know I am close to that fire exit. Lisa and I will shorten the main stage curtains and pull the stacks a little closer to the stage for egress. We have 8 fire exits in that room, which is 35' x 100' with a 10' ceiling. Lisa is always in charge of curtains and fabric. All stacks are now wrapped in sparkly purple on the sides, with black gossamer fabric with multifaceted sparkles on the fronts. (you would think she was gay, or something. Fabulous job!) No one will ever see the actual speakers behind it all.

    We received crown macro 24x6 amps to run the 4770 boxes and a 2400 on each pair of subs. The upper sub cabs hold 2241s, and the lower cabs have 2240's. I din't have enough 2241's, and I really like the way the 2240's sound. The subs are running 120hz down. No DSP installed, yet. Using dbx 120xp for sub driver, then into dbx 234 to split the 2225's at 800 for the 2445/2385 40x60 degree horn, then 7-8k for the bullets. Only one bullet is active in each box. The other bullet is just a phasing plug and horn mounted on a piece of 1/2" birch plywood. It is just a plug until I decide to find 4 more bullets. It sounds pretty tinkly up there, though. All active bullets are driven by a crown d60 silver face. Seems enough power so far. I don't have a d75 handy. I have the dbx driverack 260 that I had planned to use, but now it seema as if I will need the 4800 model since I am running 4-way active.

    About 35' from the stage wall, I have two 4722's hung from the unistrut on each side of the room acting as a side fills for the dancing. Just enough sound SPL to add a little presence at that point. I have thought about another pair of subs there, but that is the same place where the low frequency hump is in the room. Just don't seem to need it. Then there is a speed bar, tall tables and barstools at the back half of the room that is carpeted. Lisa and I have wrapped balck and gold velvet curtain aound the entire room as evidenced in the pix.I had some corrugated v style aoustic 1" thick foam on the ceiling to try and sop up some of the ringing. Most came unglued, then ripped down and ruined by neanderthal security staff.

    I know the 2385 horns are high in the air column, but my justification is that this rig could be used somewhere else when I leave this bar after 9 years, and get a real job and a life. I understand your point about a cabinet with a 15, then horn in the middle and another 15 on top. An MTM style of cab, and it just did not occur to me until one of you pointed that out. I just gotta tell you that the horn is way up there, and easily floats down towards the back on the room, nicely.

    Thank you all for your advice and counsel! I hope you enjoy what you are building, like I have been. Will write more on Saturday, and then to work on building the float for the winter parade on the 23rd.

    Sincerely,

    Scott M. Koeller.

    Is anyone else embarrassed that the Wildcats got swept by Arizona State this year? What happened there??? Unheard of.
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  11. #11
    RE: Member when? subwoof's Avatar
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    what kinda gin joint is dis??

    "hairspray nite"..???

    ok...

    Anyways I suggest using a comtech 210/200 on the bullets instead of the D60. It's NEVER the power, it's always the lack thereof that caused problems..

    (A) they match the macro + micro chassis size / look.
    (B) You have clip, signal and status lights.
    (C) You have turn-on delay AND DC protection.
    (D) You can put a CLP limiter card in them too.

    And they are CHEAPER than D60's on ebay.

    Also use some treatment on the ceiling in front of the stacks for the first 20 feet to knock down the early reflection. this will make the sound engineer very happy.

    sub

  12. #12
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    ...then to work on building the float for the winter parade on the 23rd.
    You just gotta love them Alaskans...

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    Senior Member jackgiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post

    Is anyone else embarrassed that the Wildcats got swept by Arizona State this year? What happened there??? Unheard of.
    Hey Scott, ASU just beat Stanford, the #7 team in the country. Maybe hiring Herb Sendek was the best thing Lisa Love has done.

    I kind of like it!

    And your new setup looks very coooool. Nice work.

  14. #14
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subwoof View Post
    Anyways I suggest using a comtech 210/200 on the bullets instead of the D60. It's NEVER the power, it's always the lack thereof that caused problems..
    Also use some treatment on the ceiling in front of the stacks for the first 20 feet to knock down the early reflection. this will make the sound engineer very happy.
    sub
    I also have a crown Power Base 2 amp available, and a Crown Macro 600. It just seemed a whole lotta amp for 4 bullets running from 7k upto daylight. I am using the 600 for booth monitor duty. I have 2 - 4312's mounted in the booth soffet.

    I agree about the ceiling treatment, and will glue up the 2'x4' foam panels in front of the stacks to squelch the horn's reflections.

    It really is a humpin' and bumpin' bar. Gay, straight or otherwise, its a great venue for so many different events. Sort of like the Moose Lodge, Elk's Club or hotel ballrooms. Banqueting, catering and in-house sound/lighting & production services. I haven't talked at all about all of the video stuff in the place. Bottom line, here in Alaska, everyone gets along and comes out and celebrates at our nightclub. The largest of its kind here in AK.

    Thanks, Scotty.

    Jack, its good to hear from you. My Myrna is the big dragqueen that manages the place. Always think of your Myrna and my boss and can never imagine that these two Myrna's are anything alike! Say a hearty hello to your lovely wife from Lisa and I.

    (Subwoof, If you ever feel uncomfortable at our place, just keep your backside against the wall. )
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  15. #15
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    ...I agree about the ceiling treatment, and will glue up the 2'x4' foam panels in front of the stacks to squelch the horn's reflections.
    While foam will absorb, it can overly deaden a room. Even better is use of diffusion panels...

    Quote Originally Posted by subwoof View Post
    Also use some treatment on the ceiling in front of the stacks for the first 20 feet to knock down the early reflection. this will make the sound engineer very happy.
    Bingo, subwoof!

    Taylor Guitars VIP Performance Center with RPG Treatment - see the diffusers above down stage?

    Genius, and more interesting to look at than foam...
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