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Thread: JBL 4343 restoration, progress and quite possibly a lot of question along the way

  1. #16
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    Not 100% but preferable to replacement non numbered foilcals.
    Give your originals a very HARD press between sheets of glass
    I mean HARD with wood blocks and "C" clamps
    Clean them thoroughly after pressing for a day or two and then shoot them with a light even coat of Testor's "Dull Coat"
    The patina will no longer be the final word on accuracy but all the little flaws and imperfections will blend together beautifully to the pint of being invisible; what you'll wind up with is a very presentable pair, perfectly flat and any little dinks and surface imperfections will be GONE
    I have done this myself and was very pleased with the results
    My pair was so bad this technique was a last resort before giving up and buying the reproductions
    Worked out fine

  2. #17
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    4343B on Canuck Audio Mart.

    Hi there!
    I don't know how to post a new note so I'm using this one! Sorry!
    For anyone interested!
    Cheers!
    Christophe

    http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/detai...35bf9-70327121

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Not 100% but preferable to replacement non numbered foilcals.
    Give your originals a very HARD press between sheets of glass
    I mean HARD with wood blocks and "C" clamps
    Clean them thoroughly after pressing for a day or two and then shoot them with a light even coat of Testor's "Dull Coat"
    The patina will no longer be the final word on accuracy but all the little flaws and imperfections will blend together beautifully to the pint of being invisible; what you'll wind up with is a very presentable pair, perfectly flat and any little dinks and surface imperfections will be GONE
    I have done this myself and was very pleased with the results
    My pair was so bad this technique was a last resort before giving up and buying the reproductions
    Worked out fine
    Thanks, I thought nobody was reading as it was so quiet and my detailed posts and images of minute details are probably boring people to death, lol.

    That's very good advice, I will give the the process a try and clamp them between two sheets of glass or other hard materials. The dull coat is not readily available here, and will be imported together with something else to save on shipping.

    Could you do a mug shot of the present state of your foilcals if possible? Would be nice to see how the dull coat looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger604 View Post
    Hi there!
    I don't know how to post a new note so I'm using this one! Sorry!
    For anyone interested!
    Cheers!
    Christophe

    http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/detai...35bf9-70327121
    Oh, you, you cheeky bastard!!! Hahahaha, just flipping with you. They look good. Are they yours? If so, can you do me a favor and measure the front trim edge to baffle for me?

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    There are two measurements as you can see by the arrows. One where the massive walnut starts and all the way from the baffle to the walnut trim.

    You can post a new thread to the marketplace here if you'd like: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=5

    edit: Didn't realize it was you until later, Challenger604. So I guess they're not yours.

  4. #19
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    These baffles are making me thirsty

    The baffles are finally done. It has been quite a lot of routing, gluing, sanding and fixing. I've used car body filler to make things flush and will probably paint the rare side as it looks very ugly with all the inlays. Been using very good glue which expands and can't imagine any weak spots on these now.

    Have also plugged the hole for the midrange driver as I want to install terminals to make sure it's sealed.

    First one.

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  5. #20
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    Second 4343 baffle

    Baffle numbero dos.

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  6. #21
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    Walnut veneer

    Still wondering about what kind of cut I need, so need to do more research on that.

    Will most likely be ordering from Oakwood Veneer and use Saeman's technique which is to use Titebond II and an iron. Some people are using contact cement, but I think it may be harder to align the grain properly using that method. Will probably be using paper backed veneer unless they have wood backed. Seems like professionals prefer wood backed.

    Was thinking going about it like this: Veneer the bottom, then the sides and lastly the top. Not looking forward to this process as a lot can go wrong when you're a noob and veneer is expensive.

    Another thing is the front trim. That needs to be glued in place first, and I don't have a router which supports 1/2" collets, so I was thinking about purchasing a Triton router. Some people say the trim is 30 degrees, some people says it's 60 degrees. They may both be right, but talking about different angles. I also need a bit with the correct degrees and a ball bearing. This is particularly scary as a failure here will damage both the trim and the veneer... YIKES!!! Scary times ahead.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    Still wondering about what kind of cut I need, so need to do more research on that.

    Will most likely be ordering from Oakwood Veneer and use Saeman's technique which is to use Titebond II and an iron. Some people are using contact cement, but I think it may be harder to align the grain properly using that method. Will probably be using paper backed veneer unless they have wood backed. Seems like professionals prefer wood backed.

    Was thinking going about it like this: Veneer the bottom, then the sides and lastly the top. Not looking forward to this process as a lot can go wrong when you're a noob and veneer is expensive.

    Another thing is the front trim. That needs to be glued in place first, and I don't have a router which supports 1/2" collets, so I was thinking about purchasing a Triton router. Some people say the trim is 30 degrees, some people says it's 60 degrees. They may both be right, but talking about different angles. I also need a bit with the correct degrees and a ball bearing. This is particularly scary as a failure here will damage both the trim and the veneer... YIKES!!! Scary times ahead.
    Hello Ding Ding!
    I'm going to use contact cement and the trick to align perfectly the veneer is to use a sheet of drawing paper (little thicker) that you can find at Micheals. When you laid one coat of contact cement on the paper back and two on the speaker and you let it dry as supposed to. You put the drawing sheet on top of the speaker and then the veneer on top of the drawing sheet. You will be able to align perfectly both then you slide of the drawing sheet...

    As you may have seen here, the 30 degrees router bit is mostly used. Someone here that I helped to build his 4355's had his trims pre-cutted and it works very well to my surprise! I think I should've done that too!

    Yep! No mistake allowed but relax! You'll be fine!!
    C

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger604 View Post
    Hello Ding Ding!
    I'm going to use contact cement and the trick to align perfectly the veneer is to use a sheet of drawing paper (little thicker) that you can find at Micheals. When you laid one coat of contact cement on the paper back and two on the speaker and you let it dry as supposed to. You put the drawing sheet on top of the speaker and then the veneer on top of the drawing sheet. You will be able to align perfectly both then you slide of the drawing sheet...

    As you may have seen here, the 30 degrees router bit is mostly used. Someone here that I helped to build his 4355's had his trims pre-cutted and it works very well to my surprise! I think I should've done that too!

    Yep! No mistake allowed but relax! You'll be fine!!
    C
    Hi Challenger
    That's very good advice, as a lot of folks feel that the process of using contact cement is easier than iron on. I saw that some people used wood dowels between the substrate and the veneer, but your idea for a big sheet of paper is much better. Maybe I will do contact cement instead. Sent Oakwood veneer an email yesterday asking them some questions and will get a response later today when their specialist returns. Since I'm in Norway I think I have to let the veneer adjust to the climate and humidity here before it's glued.

    As for the front trims I don't dear to pre cut them because I really want that veneer to blend smoothly with the solid front trim. In a thread on this topic which I made a couple of years ago user christo showed us how he did it and he got excellent results. Saved the old trims to test cut in walnut to set the router speed. I think the best method is what you and christo are doing, all though I'm sure other alternatives may yield good results as well.

    Haha, yes, being relaxed is key for that job. Don't want a pounding heart and subsequent shaking hands when doing it. Going to dry rout a million times and set up a jig not even King Kong could destroy for that job.

  9. #24
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Read from here on


    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post185031


    I have since veneered using Titebond + Iron and have to say it is much easier. Other than that the method is the same.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Read from here on

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post185031

    I have since veneered using Titebond + Iron and have to say it is much easier. Other than that the method is the same.
    Read the whole thread. Skill! They really turned out looking like vintage speakers with the treatment you did on them. Great work!

    Thank you for documenting the process so thoroughly, more confident in dressing these babies up now, and will stick to the Titebond II method. Will ask Oakwood for some scraps for practice.

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    The veneer in front of them is the old I pulled btw. Saved it for use on smaller projects.

  11. #26
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    Are you planning to do the edge solids first and veneer over or veneer first and fit the edge after ? On balance I think I would do it the first way.

    Looks like you have those cleaned up nicely and are very much ready to go

    For your veneers you could try contacting these people http://www.veneeredpanels.com/contact.php

    They are H Shawyer and Sons , in England. I used them recently to lay up some oak panels for a job I was doing. Their product was excellent but better than that they were super helpful. They do sell veneers on their own.

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    PM sent

  12. #27
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Veneer ....

    Definately the Titebond 2 / iron using the paperback veneer from Oakwood Veneers .
    I always apply the walnut trim after veneering ...... ,but I'm not a beginner . Cut front detail in 3 passes. Speed 5/6 on the Dewalt . Just take your time and concentrate .


    Rich

  13. #28
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    Rich , you might want to detail your routing method in the mitre joint region. Tearout is a big possibility.
    Ding Ding is new to the router game.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Are you planning to do the edge solids first and veneer over or veneer first and fit the edge after ? On balance I think I would do it the first way.

    Looks like you have those cleaned up nicely and are very much ready to go

    For your veneers you could try contacting these people http://www.veneeredpanels.com/contact.php

    They are H Shawyer and Sons , in England. I used them recently to lay up some oak panels for a job I was doing. Their product was excellent but better than that they were super helpful. They do sell veneers on their own.

    [removed image]

    PM sent
    My thinking process has gone like this: (1) Edge solids goes on first, then veneer over them and lastly rout the angle. The reason why this method is preferred is that the blending of the veneer and the solid will be easier. (2) If the front trim is routed before the veneer and you want to veneer over it you have to cut and sand the excess veneer against the awkward angle (getting the seam exactly at the start of the angle). There will be slight sanding when it is routed together with the solid too, but you don't have to poke a knife in there to cut it.

    If the veneer is put on before the trim there will be a seam between the veneer and the front trim. That seam is probably hard er to blend in for someone with my level of skill, so I will take the risk and do it like christo and have the seam blend in with the angle. Reposting a picture he made in my other thread linked a few posts back.

    (Oh Lord, I'm wordy!)...






    I like how he adds those two scrap pieces to avoid tearouts. It's risky, if you mess up and have some luck you may be able to remove the front trims with a flush trim bit and put on new ones which are pre routed and get a seam between the solid and the veneer.

    Thank you for your PM (will reply when I've contacted them). A supplier in the UK is preferable for many reasons, one being shipping cost. Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Definately the Titebond 2 / iron using the paperback veneer from Oakwood Veneers .
    I always apply the walnut trim after veneering ...... ,but I'm not a beginner . Cut front detail in 3 passes. Speed 5/6 on the Dewalt . Just take your time and concentrate .

    Rich
    Thank you Rich, will definitely be using the Titebond and iron after seeing so many of you prefer it. I was under the impression it could be a little messy, but being careful and masking already veneered sides against spills is probably the way to go.

    Do you guys wait long between veneering each side?

    Thank you, yes, putting it on after veneering demands extreme precision from both man and his tools, I'm not going to get a good result trying that I think, so will try the flush rout method.

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Rich , you might want to detail your routing method in the mitre joint region. Tearout is a big possibility.
    Ding Ding is new to the router game.
    That would be nice!

  15. #30
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    Glue ...

    Apply glue with a small foam roller 3 coats on back of veneer and cabinet . Allow to dry to the touch between coats ..... iron on .... once the veneer cools its set ... go at your own pace .

    You've all ready figured out how to avoid ripping the end grain out . sharp tools are a must ..

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