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Thread: So many times, so many ways, ad nauseam.............

  1. #1
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    So many times, so many ways, ad nauseam.............

    And I am sorry to ask it again
    Polarity wiring for the L100's woofers
    I am working with a late production pair using the 123A-3
    The 123A-3 is a negative polarity transducer (positive voltage applied to the red terminal causes INWARD cone movement)
    Most everyone here already knows this; I only reiterate this for the purposes of asking my question
    I have seen the chart here provided by member "4313B" about which models (systems) are "innies" or "outies") But I have also read that it may contain an error or two:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...=1023#post1023
    (if you look at the photo below you will note that it is the HF driver wired out of phase, going by WIRE COLOR to driver ONLY and not the MF, it is also a fool proof arraignment using the male and female faston type connectors

    My question is this: on this pair of L100s do I put the green wire to the red woofer terminal ("innie") or to the black terminal which would in effect make it an "outie"?

    I only ask this (yet again) because I have yet to find any L100 owner's manual which does not instruct the user to attach the green wire to the red terminal (or black to black)

    I am hoping that when I reassemble these it will be for the last time

    I just wish the hell JBL had printed terminal COLOR ID for the DRIVERS on their tech sheets (although they did on the first version of the L100)

    Thanks for your patience




    This is where the confusion (continues) to kick in; looks like they attached GREEN wires to BLACK and NEG input (LX12-10), so do I adhere to the wire color coding or what! Drives me nuts:


  2. #2
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    Name:  L100 (2).jpg
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    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030) 305P MkII

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Name:  L100 (2).jpg
Views: 869
Size:  49.2 KB
    I see that, that's why I mentioned it
    But if you look at the rest of it and the photo of my actual crossover type, you will also note an error with regards to the tweeter's wiring as well as the fact that even though the wire's color is green on the first version's network and attaches to the driver's red terminal it is also attached to the BLACK input terminal

    That is why I am still not certain; the INPUT terminal's color versus the actual wire's color versus the traducer's terminal color

    "4313B" wrote in another thread which I cannot find that a couple of errors had been identified in that chart

    I would think that wire color would rule for the purposes of the assembly line workers

  4. #4
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    It's just to wire it properly then it becomes good.

    Thought you were an expert on JBL
    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030) 305P MkII

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    It's just to wire it properly then it becomes good.

    Thought you were an expert on JBL
    Don't know exactly what that line means (maybe it's a language thing)
    But in other words you don't know the answer (for sure) either, best I can tell
    If these boxes are wired using the somewhat standard JBL practice of black, or black stripe always going to the black traducer terminal, then this pair will be an "innie" (again, if I am following your broken English) contradicting the cheat sheet
    There is nothing on the L100A (late) model tech sheet to indicate otherwise (or for that matter, the owner's manual)
    Thanks for trying though

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I see that, that's why I mentioned it
    But if you look at the rest of it and the photo of my actual crossover type, you will also note an error with regards to the tweeter's wiring as well as the fact that even though the wire's color is green on the first version's network and attaches to the driver's red terminal it is also attached to the BLACK input terminal

    That is why I am still not certain; the INPUT terminal's color versus the actual wire's color versus the traducer's terminal color

    "4313B" wrote in another thread which I cannot find that a couple of errors had been identified in that chart

    I would think that wire color would rule for the purposes of the assembly line workers
    I would assume the published wiring diagram is correct. Therefore the red + terminal on the input is connected to the red + terminal on the woofer and midrange and to the - terminal of the tweeter. Green appears to be the + woofer wire color.

    Since you have access to the actual networks you don't even need to rely on the color code. The woofer connects directly to the input and the mid gets connected to the L-pad with the larger cap.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I would assume the published wiring diagram is correct. Therefore the red + terminal on the input is connected to the red + terminal on the woofer and midrange and to the - terminal of the tweeter. Green appears to be the + woofer wire color.

    Since you have access to the actual networks you don't even need to rely on the color code. The woofer connects directly to the input and the mid gets connected to the L-pad with the larger cap.


    Widget
    Good morning Mr. Widget,
    Yes, that part is done and confirmed. But if you look closely, you will see that JBL changes up on the wire colors that attach to (and "leave" out to the drivers themselves from the little three lug terminal strip) The tweeter's terminal #2 on it's L-pad is "feed" by a black wire, on the mid's L-pad #2 terminal, the expected white "hot" wire. Going by more than a dozen photos, I do not think that this was an error in any way, it is also confirmed on the schematic as provided by JBL and substantiated by the little < and > symbols (correlates with the fastener types)

    In short, the tweeter's RED wire wire, the one which actually plugs into the tweeter is feed by the BLACK input wire which is also the same wire which feeds the BLACK wire which ultimately goes to the woofer.

    I have looked at numerous photos, that along with the fact that the tweeters wires are the only two treated with the the use of fastons and once again gives rise to my uncertainty as for woofer wire orientation.

    Go with the color code protocol or the often discussed "switch 'em when dealing with the 123A-3?

    IF I knew with certainty that the first wire drawn on all JBL tech sheets was in fact the conductor going to the RED terminal on all individual transducers then any and all questions regarding this subject could be put to bed

  8. #8
    Senior Member 4343's Avatar
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    Cool

    JBL may have wanted the box to be an "outie" so that they would not have some versions of the same line being opposite. Thus the switch of the woofer wires colors. The first schematic has the wires swapped, red input feeds black terminal on woofer. That makes it match other manufactures "absolute" polarity when used with the "innie" woofer. The second one has black input going to black terminal on the "outie" woofer, again matching everyone else, and the original L100.

    I think the tweeter flip has more to do with the crossover devolving from second order to first order.

    Unless your crossover does not match the diagram, trust the color code...
    Mike Scott in SJ, CA
    Drive 'em to the Xmax!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4343 View Post
    JBL may have wanted the box to be an "outie" so that they would not have some versions of the same line being opposite. Thus the switch of the woofer wires colors. The first schematic has the wires swapped, red input feeds black terminal on woofer. That makes it match other manufactures "absolute" polarity when used with the "innie" woofer. The second one has black input going to black terminal on the "outie" woofer, again matching everyone else, and the original L100.

    I think the tweeter flip has more to do with the crossover devolving from second order to first order.

    Unless your crossover does not match the diagram, trust the color code...
    I hear you, but if I wire my green wire to the 123A-3's RED terminal (their most common convention) I will have an "innie" so that pretty much discredits that theory (if the chart is accurate). On the earlier model which adheres to that convention they make a damn note of it, on the oddball versions they don't I just can't understand why they didn't put terminal ID on the damn tech sheets. On the LATE model L100A the + wire (GREEN) wasn't connected to the RED SPEAKER terminal on my pair, the BLACK wire was and I have no indication that they had ever been opened. This is contrary to the sheet. Does anyone know if the top wire in the drawings at the TRANSDUCER is always the positive half of the signal? If so then the green wire should go there:



    Quote Originally Posted by 4343 View Post
    Unless your crossover does not match the diagram, trust the color code...
    It does, except the damn diagram doesn't indicate transducer terminal color; only the "sex" of drivers using fastons................................that's the whole of the question/uncertainty as to what is correct

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I'm confused. So the issue is not the network or the wiring diagram but the fact that the drivers are not clearly marked with red and black terminals or corresponding + and - symbols?


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I'm confused. So the issue is not the network or the wiring diagram but the fact that the drivers are not clearly marked with red and black terminals or corresponding + and - symbols?


    Widget
    The network is correct and matches all photos and the technical drawings; no problems there
    The tweeter is connected using male and female fastons, so no problems there (unless JBL made them)
    The mids were wired using "standard" WHITE wire to RED speaker terminal and BLACK wire to BLACK speaker terminal, so no problems there (and by speaker, I mean the LE5-2 driver, NOT the system)

    So now, the problem/question:
    I have 123A-3 woofers which are NEGATIVE transducers
    They have a RED and a BLACK spring terminal connector for wiring
    The cross over assembly provides two wires for this purpose; one GREEN and one BLACK
    Where does the GREEN and BLACK wire go? GREEN to RED terminal and BLACK to BLACK as is the most typical OR the other way around?

    I am asking this question for the millionth time (sorry folks) as the information on the chart contradicts the results I would get if I followed it (the "innie" versus "outie" results) The closest I have ever found to a definitive answer, for years, is just make certain they are both the same and match whatever other speakers you might be running in a multi-channel set up

    I also continue to be plagued with this question as I have never been able to find, or seen, any edition of the owner's manual which showed anything other than the "standard" GREEN wire to RED woofer terminal, ever

    Anyone out there got one for a late late production pair? My serial # is 250934 A and another a few digits away; I would LOVE to see a diagram from JBL showing the GREEN wire going to the BLACK terminal

    I want them wired the way JBL built them; they will never be part of a multi-speaker set-up or paired with a sub

    So, in the shortest way possible; which WOOFER terminal gets the GREEN wire, the BLACK one or the RED one?

    Thanks men for your tolerance
    Thomas

    This page is from an owner's manual I have never seen a complete copy of (with the YELLOW/YELLOW BLACK tweeter wiring) But it still shows GREEN wire to WOOFER RED terminal:

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Green to red (red system terminal and red woofer terminal) and black to black. That is what the schematic shows and your crossovers would suggest.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Green to red (red system terminal and red woofer terminal) and black to black. That is what the schematic shows and your crossovers would suggest.


    Widget
    Thank you Mr. Widget
    That schematic is one I found here though; I have no manual that actually came with the pair I am working on
    (notice those yellow and yellow with black stripe wires to the the tweeter)
    I actually have red and black wires to my tweeters

    If I do follow the "conventional convention" as you suggest, then my pair will be an "innie" and contradict the "cheat sheet"

    That is what this has all been about and lead to me asking this well worn question yet again (and, because of the dozen or so references I have read here, in multiple threads, in which people have said "but the 123A-3 is a negative driver so you need to switch your wires" when ever the late production versions were up for discussion

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    That is what this has all been about and lead to me asking this well worn question yet again (and, because of the dozen or so references I have read here, in multiple threads, in which people have said "but the 123A-3 is a negative driver so you need to switch your wires") when ever the late production versions were up for discussion
    I think my L100s are the same series and the woofers are likely due for a rotation. I'll let you know what I find.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I think my L100s are the same series and the woofers are likely due for a rotation. I'll let you know what I find.


    Widget
    That would be great, thank you!
    This tech sheet is an accurate reflection of the speakers I own, correct in every detail: wire colors and driver compliment.................except for the missing transducer terminal ID colors!

    http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...0LATE%20ts.pdf

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