Everest DD66000 Going Active

[Brian DK]

I have a dream, going active on my DD66000.
At this point they are driven by a Krell FBP700cx.

The idea is to let the Krell handle both woofers.
And then some tubeamps for the top.

I have a Deqx with digital X-over.
That means that I can connect the tubeamps direct to the drivers.
Byt then I have the challange..

Both the 476be and the 045be has a very high sensitvity.
The 476be is 110db at 1 watt.
The 045 I dont know, byt probably around the same.?

This means that I need very littel Watts from the tubeamps to the horns.

So here is my real question

what kind of tubeamps work with that small watts.?

Thinking three or four watts is enough?

Could Quicksilver be an option? And will they perform better than my Krell on the top?

Any ideas? .

[LowPhreak]

Rule of thumb for me is I wouldn't want any discontinuity in sound between the SS and tube amps above the bass range (say 70-100Hz), or any two different amps unless from the same series/family, especially a speaker with the resolving ability that I assume the Everest has. Perhaps I'd give it a try on the outside woofer (up to 150Hz), but not on the mid-woofer (up to 700Hz) or higher.

[speakerdave]

. . . . Both the 476be and the 045be has a very high sensitvity.
The 476be is 110db at 1 watt.
The 045 I dont know, byt probably around the same.?

This means that I need very littel Watts from the tubeamps to the horns.

So here is my real question

what kind of tubeamps work with that small watts.?

Thinking three or four watts is enough?

Could Quicksilver be an option? . . ..

The Quicksilver low gain horn mono blocks are an interesting idea which I have considered myself for a different, DIY, system, but I don't think you need them with the DD66000. Your question makes me think you would profit from a careful reading of pp27-29 of the owner's manual. Or, possibly, just consult with your dealer about what is needed and how to go about setting up a biamp operation.

[speakerdave]

Rule of thumb for me is I wouldn't want any discontinuity in sound between the SS and tube amps above the bass range (say 70-100Hz), or any two different amps unless from the same series/family, especially a speaker with the resolving ability that I assume the Everest has. Perhaps I'd give it a try on the outside woofer (up to 150Hz), but not on the mid-woofer (up to 700Hz) or higher.

It seems to me that in a hand off from a 150 gram 15 inch paper composite woofer cone to a 1 or 2 gram Be diaphragm there are already "discontinuities" of sound, and they are part of the reason for choosing different amplifiers.

[LowPhreak]

Sure, you may find different amps that compensate for some of that, but could exacerbate it in other ways. Or let's just throw some 2nd harmonics, distortions, and probably rolled-off top end and worse S/N ratio over the Be's and it would help? I don't know, it's possible to make an improvement I suppose if you get lucky with the right amp combos, and it might be fun to try.

My opinion though, and it's just one opinion, is I'd probably not bother.

[speakerdave]

Sure, you may find different amps that compensate for some of that, but could exacerbate it in other ways. Or let's just throw some 2nd harmonics, distortions, and probably rolled-off top end and worse S/N ratio over the Be's and it would help? I don't know, it's possible to make an improvement I suppose if you get lucky with the right amp combos, and it might be fun to try.

My opinion though, and it's just one opinion, is I'd probably not bother.

I see the identical amp recommendation frequently, probably rooted in user manuals, actually, and I'm guessing that it's for the reason you point out, that doing otherwise may involve some experimentation and multiple amp purchases, which many people would find extremely inconvenient. Personally, I've never had a problem combining truly good quality amps of different types.

Anyway, I think for the OP this part of the decision has already been made.

Of course disdain of tube amps really moots the whole question, right?

[Mr. Widget]

I have a dream, going active on my DD66000.
At this point they are driven by a Krell FBP700cx.

The idea is to let the Krell handle both woofers.
And then some tubeamps for the top.

I have a Deqx with digital X-over.
That means that I can connect the tubeamps direct to the drivers.
Byt then I have the challange..

Both the 476be and the 045be has a very high sensitvity.
The 476be is 110db at 1 watt.
The 045 I dont know, byt probably around the same.?

The DD66000s are designed to be easily biamped. Of course without modification they are meant to be used with their internal passive EQ compensation filters due to the nature of their constant directivity horns. Also be aware that you lose a lot of the output of the compression drivers because of this.

I realize that DEQX has the capability to digitally recreate not only the crossover slopes but also the necessary compensation curves. That said I would be hesitant to try to recreate these curves unless you consider yourself an expert user and have the capability to accurately measure the systems in a large room free of reflections. I would use the DEQX as a simple two-way crossover with the amps of your choice. You can then use DEQX for room correction and personal tuning.

I'm not sure what you would need for a high frequency amp, but I would think 10-40 wpc would make sense.


Widget

[Brian DK]

The Quicksilver low gain horn mono blocks are an interesting idea which I have considered myself for a different, DIY, system but I don't think you need them with the DD66000. Your question makes me think you would profit from a careful reading of pp27-29 of the owner's manual. Or, possibly, just consult with your dealer about what is needed and how to go about setting up a biamp operation.

I have read the manuel and are well aware of the biamp funktion.
But I dont want to use the internal x-over for the mid and high freq-drivers.
I dont see the point in having a 300Watts amp on a driver with a sensitivity at 110db,
with a big loss the x-over.
Instead of connecting a low watts amp direct to the driver, with no loss.

Or am I in over my head?

[Mr. Widget]

Sure, you may find different amps that compensate for some of that, but could exacerbate it in other ways. Or let's just throw some 2nd harmonics, distortions, and probably rolled-off top end and worse S/N ratio over the Be's and it would help? I don't know, it's possible to make an improvement I suppose if you get lucky with the right amp combos, and it might be fun to try.

I've heard plenty of tube amps that are distortion inducing devices as you suggest, but there are quite a few that are linear, low noise, low distortion devices. While they may not offer the "musical magic" some seem to think only tubes can offer, they sound great just like a high quality solid state design.


Widget

[speakerdave]

I have read the manuel and are well aware of the biamp funktion.
But I dont want to use the internal x-over for the mid and high freq-drivers.
I dont see the point in having a 300Watts amp on a driver with a sensitivity at 110db,
with a big loss the x-over.
Instead of connecting a low watts amp direct to the driver, with no loss.

Or am I in over my head?

What Widget said.

[Brian DK]

The DD66000s are designed to be easily biamped. Of course without modification they are meant to be used with their internal passive EQ compensation filters due to the nature of their constant directivity horns. Also be aware that you lose a lot of the output of the compression drivers because of this.

I realize that DEQX has the capability to digitally recreate not only the crossover slopes but also the necessary compensation curves. That said I would be hesitant to try to recreate these curves unless you consider yourself an expert user and have the capability to accurately measure the systems in a large room free of reflections. I would use the DEQX as a simple two-way crossover with the amps of your choice. You can then use DEQX for room correction and personal tuning.

I'm not sure what you would need for a high frequency amp, but I would think 10-40 wpc would make sense.

Widget

Hi Mr. Widget.

Ok - Do I understand you correct..?
If I use the Biamp funktion in the speaker, and 2 amps.
My 700 Watt Krell to the bottom.
And then only 10-40 Watt is enough for the high freq?

Do that mean that the level trim in the internal x-over is out of funktion?
otherwice I would think it is way to little power on the high freq?

[Mr. Widget]

Hi Mr. Widget.

Ok - Do I understand you correct..?
If I use the Biamp funktion in the speaker, and 2 amps.
My 700 Watt Krell to the bottom.
And then only 10-40 Watt is enough for the high freq?

Do that mean that the level trim in the internal x-over is out of funktion?
otherwice I would think it is way to little power on the high freq?

How loud in dB do you typically play your speakers?


Widget

[maxserg]

Maybe this?

[LowPhreak]

Of course disdain of tube amps really moots the whole question, right?

Not necessarily moot, since I've owned several tube amps & pre-amps that sounded very good. Even so, eventually I've found I'd rather remove distortions and non-linearities from amps, pres, sources than tolerate or cover them up.

I didn't derive my opinion from user manual recommendations, but from my own trials with various amps over the years bi-amping different speakers. I didn't have access to near-infinite models and combinations, but I usually liked tubes on top and SS on bottom best if the tube amp ran almost full range and SS for the low end as I said earlier.

YMMV.

[speakerdave]

Not necessarily moot, since I've owned several tube amps & pre-amps that sounded very good. Even so, eventually I've found I'd rather remove distortions and non-linearities from amps, pres, sources than tolerate or cover them up.

I didn't derive my opinion from user manual recommendations, but from my own trials with various amps over the years bi-amping different speakers. I didn't have access to near-infinite models and combinations, but I usually liked tubes on top and SS on bottom best if the tube amp ran almost full range and SS for the low end as I said earlier.

YMMV.

I think our experiences may be similar.

Well, Widget owns Everest II's, has probably heard more gear than most of the rest of us, and seems to have gotten the OP's attention.