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Thread: Experiments with M2 horns.

  1. #136
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    There's a little progress to show. I added another internal brace under the woofer and a smaller one at the top of the cabinet. I added some cleats along the sides of the opening at the back and glued the lower part of the back on. I cut the terminal plate opening. Now the cabinets weigh 79 pounds each. I think that the veneer is going to be next. I'm reading up on the topic.

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  2. #137
    Obsolete
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    Exciting!

  3. #138
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Looking very nice!
    I apologize for the question, as I'm sure this was covered, but in a nutshell how do your cabinets differ from stock?


    Widget

  4. #139
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Looking good Don.

  5. #140
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Looking very nice!
    I apologize for the question, as I'm sure this was covered, but in a nutshell how do your cabinets differ from stock?


    Widget
    I don't have a recording console in my living room, so I don't need such a big tall speaker with the horn looking over the top. These are smaller and fit my preferences better. They should also be prettier, with walnut veneer and grille cloth, but that's hopeful speculation at this point.
    My earliest drawings were kind of plain and ugly. Looking too much like a Cornwall. So I wanted to add something to the front. Also , I was thinking about cloning the 4365 but with the M2 horn. That turned out to be too large once I made a mock-up. I started over. I increased the width over the JBL design until I had enough room on the baffle for grille cloth frames and some inch wide walnut moldings on the front. I set the height as tall as I thought I could stand to look at and, and set the depth to a 1.6 ratio to the width. I checked the volume, saw that it was bigger than 4CF, and decided that that was good enough. So that's what I'm building. Looking back, it wasn't very scientific.

  6. #141
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Thanks Don.

    I agreed 100% on the aesthetics. I find the tall black coffin look of the Factory M2s a show stopper for me.
    I would be concerned that changing the dimensions may affect performance. I'm not saying that your changes will affect performance, but I would want to compare the two side by side, before I committed.

    I also agree, that your proportions look much nicer.

    Keep up the great work and continue to keep us posted.


    Widget

  7. #142
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    More work to show. I started today by trying to fix a problem that I had created for myself earlier. I made the sheet on the baffle too large, because I hadn't decided the port locations at the time I cut it. So set up a fence for the router and milled some of it away. It will allow more flat surface to veneer and leave uncovered at the bottom of the speaker. With some wood chisel clean up and sanding the job came out OK.

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    Time for my first ever try at veneering. The veneer had been stored for years, was curled up badly, and and I had to figure out how to flatten it. I tried laying it flat between boards for a few days and it curled right back up again as soon as I removed the boards. I ended up ironing it with a steam iron, that actually worked well.

    I laid the sheets of veneer down on some shelving material and cut it from the roll with a utility knife. The shelving material is sacrificed, its surface gets cut up. I made every veneer piece 1 inch oversized. That turned out to be a mistake, as the veneer trimmer works better if there is not a lot of extra material hanging over the edge.

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    Here I put some glue on the cabinet and spread it out with a roller. I'm using regular wood glue. My thinking here is that I want the surface to be hard so I didn't want to use the softer contact cement under the veneer. I'm hoping that this method turns out more durable. Time will tell.
    I used a foam paint roller to spread it out. It worked OK, but is kind of wasteful, as a lot of the glue goes down the drain when you clean that roller.

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    I rolled the veneer with a rubber roller to press it down.

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  8. #143
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Then I laid a towel flat on the veneer, put some boards on top, and clamped it all together. I let the glue dry, then took the clamps of and started working on the edges.

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    This wood glue method is unforgiving. Most of my corners are not as square as I would have liked them, where the filler is sanded. The filler is a little bit softer than the MDF, and so it doesn't quite sand down flat. This causes the glue to fail to stick near the ends. I almost changed methods to use contact cement there, but I went back and fixed one loose end by squirting more glue underneath and clamping that end again. The repair there worked perfectly, so I continued with the wood glue.

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    I had to use some shears to cut off most of the excess material. Then switched to the edge trimmer to cut the veneer flush with the edge. I could have skipped a step here if I'd followed instructions and cut the material smaller. The shears worked fine though.

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    I'm happy with the result.

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    Last one for now. Moldings and paint are next.

  9. #144
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Very nice!
    I can't wait to see how they look like in their final state!

  10. #145
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    Time for my first ever try at veneering.
    Congratulations! You pulled it off! Thanks for the excellent documentation.


    Widget

  11. #146
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Like the veneer orientation (looks "grounded"). Appreciate the process documenting!

  12. #147
    Senior Member bldozier's Avatar
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    Marked it cause I enjoyed your write up.
    You used which glue. I read tightbond is heat
    activated as well, II having a higher working temp
    the I, iirc.
    Interested to know why you did not heatlock
    your veneer. Non paper backed?

    I have my first veneer come up, as well 10 or 20mil
    paper walnut😜, however it was contact or heat lock

    no more hardware store they just went outta business
    so, just trying to prepare before I purchase...

  13. #148
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I have seen veneer with heat activated adhesive on the back and I think that it is probably good stuff. If I ever do this again maybe I'll try that kind. But this is just plain paper backed, with no adhesive until the user puts it on. It was cheap on eBay. The wood glue is Titebond 3, just because I ran low on the Titebond 2 that I started with. These glues don't need any heat to set.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    I have seen veneer with heat activated adhesive on the back and I think that it is probably good stuff. If I ever do this again maybe I'll try that kind. But this is just plain paper backed, with no adhesive until the user puts it on. It was cheap on eBay. The wood glue is Titebond 3, just because I ran low on the Titebond 2 that I started with. These glues don't need any heat to set.
    Titebond doesn't need heat, but it's pretty neat to use it that way. You put a couple of light coats of Titebond on the substrate and the (regular paper backed) veneer, let them dry completely. Then you can place the veneer onto the substrate - dry glue to dry glue - and use an iron (with a protective tee shirt or something over the face of the iron) to adhere it. Works like heat activated contact cement.

    So when people talk about ironing down Titebond, this is what they are referring to.

  15. #150
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Congratulations! You pulled it off! Thanks for the excellent documentation.


    Widget
    Looking good Don. There is some really good information in the beginning of this thread also.

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