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Thread: Experiments with M2 horns.

  1. #16
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I've started running the software for the BSS in advance of receiving the unit, taking that first step up the learning curve. There are two programs, Audio Architect and London Architect. Both programs can be downloaded, no charge, at the BSS web site. The Audio Architect seems to be newer and it looks like BSS is trying to encourage users to adopt it. There is a zip file available on the JBL pro site for anyone to download, it's the architect file and macro file for the M2 with the Blu-80. I was interested to see what was inside. It's a London file and won't open in Audio Architect. Crap. Worse, when opened in London, the layout is visible but none of the equalizers seem to be doing anything, they all seem to be set to zero. These would probably be adjusted by the tech during installation. The crossovers and maybe more EQ are in a block with no control available, and no visibility of what it is doing. It seems to be what they call a macro, and opens in a separate program called a macro editor. Or I'd hope so anyway, but attempting to open the file in the macro editor shows it to be password protected. Double crap. So you can load the file and it will probably work, but at this point, I don't see any way to make changes without starting over from scratch. So it looks like that's what I'll be doing. Of course at this point in my learning curve it could be that I just don't know what I'm doing and everything I've written here is wrong. We'll see with more experience. That was five hours of frustration that took five minutes to describe here. I'll be starting all over again tomorrow.

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  2. #17
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Having been through this with TiDome's 4-way active system it looks like you're off to a good start. Unfortunate the macro is locked, would have made a good baseline.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Yesterday and today's challenge was the secondhand Blu-160. The last person who used it apparently set it so that it would no longer automatically request an IP address on startup, then also apparently did not ever set a fixed IP address into the box either. No connectivity. The solution was to set up an RS232 connetion and use the utility in the help section of London Architect to tell it to use automatic IP address selection again. So the DHCP in a router can work with it. It sounds easy now that I've accomplished it, but it wasn't. I wasted hours trying different computer settings, firewall settings, different network hardware and even different computers.
    Here's a hint for anyone who has a similar problem in the future, the London device has to display a valid IP address on it's LCD display after starting up, and 10.1.1.10 and 255.255.255.0 are not good ones, they are telling you that it is not going to work. Stop right there and fix the BSS box.
    I didn't even remember when I started that my latest PC doesn't have a serial port. Nor my laptop. RS232 is so passe. I had to find a serial port adapter that plugs in the motherboard and provides an output in a empty slot on the back of the PC. Oh, one more thing, don't forget to record the mac address, found on a tiny sticker on top of the box. Don't ever accidentally rub that sticker off, you need that. Now the box is connected to the network, but the whole weekend, that I had planned on spending working on the sound, is gone. And I still have not even heard this new box yet.
    I've switched to using Audio Architect for now, it seems to be a little bit simpler to use. There are no utilities included on the help menu though, so I'm glad both programs exist.
    There must be a lot of functions built into that Macro in the factory design, I've added everything I can think of on this new layout, and the CPU meter is still indicating way short of the their design. It's probably a sign that I've missed something.

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  4. #19
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    "...the London device has to display a valid IP address on it's LCD display after starting up, and 10.1.1.10 and 255.255.255.0..."

    you'd have to set your computer to an address of 10.1.1.x (x could be 1). The address won't pass a router but is legitimate. It would be simpler and more convenient to use a 2nd Ethernet device on the computer (so the main connection remains live)... A cheap usb/Ethernet dongle would do.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I was thinking that the 10.1.1.10 address was set by leaving the field blank and letting the firmware provide something by default, but that could be wrong. Maybe it was put there on purpose to facilitate a direct cable connection. I tried to set up a direct cable connection, but that never worked. I think it has to have a crossover cat 5 cable, and I couldn't find one.

  6. #21
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    "I think it has to have a crossover cat 5 cable, and I couldn't find one."

    Good point... & quite likely if one end isn't auto mdi-x (I'd assume the BSS box is not).

  7. #22
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Some progress, but nothing to listen to yet. New cables, cheap ones. And this is how I've modified the horn adapters to accept 2451s. Eventually. The 2452s are back on for now.

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  8. #23
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    BSS

    Hi Don,

    I have been using BSS for a few years. They are all DHCP from the box. There is no problem at all to have the BSS units co-exist with you normal network. I have several units in my LAN. I have a BLU800 + BLU BOB in the main system and some BLU16’s.

    I will swap in my M2 horns a bit like what you describe as soon as I get some time to build new cabinets.

    Probably the previous owner has changed the IP address or the subnet so you cannot see the unit. It is pretty common to change the subnet just to avoid other people on the same net to see the unit.

    BSS provides a method to reset to factory settings including DHCP and standard subnet via RS232. If you PM your email I will send the PDF from BSS so you can reset your unit. Something you should do anyway to make sure you do not retain any “leftovers”.

    Once on DHCP the unit will show up in London Architect under the “Network” folder at the bottom. Under properties you can change all the network settings to your preferred. In there you can also do FW update very simple. -Very smooth actually.

    I suggest setting a fixed IP so you do not have to “chase” the unit each time. However, London Architect, “LA”, will always find the unit if it is on the same network/subnet regardless of settings in the unit or location.

    Please also bear in mind no to enable more than one network card in your computer in LA at each time. I don’t know why but enabling more than one can give problems. Use one at a time to avoid problems. If your computer has both wireless and wired cards, only enable one at a time in LA. Both ways works just fine but not at the same time.

    Please PM for more info. These units are wonderful and set up right there are few units in the market that can give them a match, I have tried many  .

    Kind regards
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  9. #24
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Thank you sir, while I've already fixed my networking problem, I'd still like to read the PDF. I'll PM, and I've cleaned out my inbox for a change.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    By opening a new design in Audio architect and then dragging the correct Crown Itech amp into a venue, you can then use the open menu from within the amp setup to load the settings for the M2. Being device files, they don't open from the main menu, you have to have the amp in a design first. It took me a while to figure that out, so I thought I'd share. These files are available from the JblPro website along with the Blu80 file.
    But like the Blu80 file, the interesting parts are protecteted by little padlock icons and nothing interesting is visible. So this was not worth the time I spent trying to figure it out.
    I've been reading and re-readig , and reading again 4313B's posts of the equalizer and crossover filter data found on page 13 of the long M2 thread, they seem to be exactly what's needed, so Thank you for that sir, if you're following.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    By opening a new design in Audio architect and then dragging the correct Crown Itech amp into a venue, you can then use the open menu from within the amp setup to load the settings for the M2. Being device files, they don't open from the main menu, you have to have the amp in a design first. It took me a while to figure that out, so I thought I'd share. These files are available from the JblPro website along with the Blu80 file.
    But like the Blu80 file, the interesting parts are protecteted by little padlock icons and nothing interesting is visible. So this was not worth the time I spent trying to figure it out.
    I've been reading and re-readig , and reading again 4313B's posts of the equalizer and crossover filter data found on page 13 of the long M2 thread, they seem to be exactly what's needed, so Thank you for that sir, if you're following.
    You are welcome. I have attached the original version for you to load and look at if you want.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  12. #27
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I've installed the BLU-160 and started fooling around with it. It's nice. Here's what the first few measurements look like. The green is the old SPP-AC1 and SPP-SWEQM "by the ear" setup. The red is the settings copied as closely as possible from the I-tech file, (Thanks 4313b!) and the blue is from me fooling with the equalizer settings for a half hour, mostly by turning off filters that don't seem to be helping this setup. The traces can't be compared exactly because I was also moving the microphone around.
    The BSS unit cannot exactly duplicate the settings from the Crown amp. The delay is not adjustable in such small steps as Crown provides, and the slope on shelf filters does not have continuous adjustments, instead it starts at 6db and only moves in 3db steps up from there. These are not serious problems. There's lots of tuning left to go, obviously. By ear, the main problem right now is that there's too much high treble, it causes the cymbals to dominate the mix a bit. Looking at the chart, it's not there though. I might get used to it instead of fixing it. The sound is much improved already, as the vocals balance out with the instruments better. It combines spectacular sound and punch with smoothness, it is easier to listen to. This is one of the best setups I've ever heard right now, and I'm not nearly finished with it. The 1501FEs are still in the plan.
    I've got to do something about the fan noise of the Blu-unit itself. And rig up a power switch for it.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    The 1501FEs are still in the plan.
    They are fantastic transducers.

    I am very glad to hear that you are enjoying this setup.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    Today I did an exercise in using REW to decide what the EQ settings should be. I started by taking five measurement sweeps from positions spread around the room. The mic was placed in the middle of the room, and moved about a yard left then right then front and back from there. Then I smoothed all of the plots and let REW average them. Then I let REW make an new curve to correct the averaged measurement. And entered that data into the BSS. These new curves are in addition to the curves from JBL, I didn't remove those. Afterwards I took the plots shown here. These are both close to my listening chair, one a foot or two in front of the other. If I had just done one room position and applied the correction without moving the mic at all, I guess I could have could have made a nice flat chart, suitable for advertising.
    With this curve the system doesn't sound any better than before I started. Not really bad, but not better either. So maybe today's point is that when you're getting this close to ideal, you can leave it alone. Fortunately, you can save endless different EQ curves, and I'd saved yesterdays, so I just reverted back to the saved values.
    The blue is yesterday's measurement. The orange and violet traces are today's data. If I get some free time tomorrow, I might repeat the whole exercise, but bypassing the old JBL curves first, and using less movement of the microphone, keeping it closer to my chair.

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  15. #30
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    It doesn't sound better because you're eq'ing room reflections, not the speaker response. Any reason you're not making gated measurements? You really need good data to eq a horn like this.

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