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Thread: 4343 Rotary switch

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    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    4343 Rotary switch

    I know there's been a bit said about how bad this switch is, I just want to add to that. I just pulled it out of my 4343B's and totally bypassed it. I'm running in biamp mode and there's quite an improvement without that damn switch. Greater clarity in the highs and more slam in the bass. It's pretty indistinguishable from the improvement i saw when going active 4 way. In fact I now think the improvements I saw between active 4 way and biamp were mainly due to not going thru that switch when Active 4 waying

    Not sure if this thing was only used in the 4343's, but definitely recommend bypassing it if you haven't already. I won't go into it, but the thing is so poorly designed.

    On another note, I also just side mounted them, actually rotating the baffle and everything. It's pretty cool.

  2. #2
    Senior Member martin2395's Avatar
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    Yep, that switch is a dog. It was used on more models, 4333,44 and 45 for example.

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    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    Yeah I was suprised how much it deteriorates the sound quality too. I had sprayed deoxit but those contacts don't contact properly in some areas on mine and were even shorting out on the screws that hold the thing in.

    Quote Originally Posted by martin2395 View Post
    Yep, that switch is a dog. It was used on more models, 4333,44 and 45 for example.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Happy to say my 4345 clones never had one!

    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Member Mikhail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldjazz View Post
    I know there's been a bit said about how bad this switch is, I just want to add to that. I just pulled it out of my 4343B's and totally bypassed it. I'm running in biamp mode and there's quite an improvement without that damn switch. Greater clarity in the highs and more slam in the bass. It's pretty indistinguishable from the improvement i saw when going active 4 way. In fact I now think the improvements I saw between active 4 way and biamp were mainly due to not going thru that switch when Active 4 waying

    Not sure if this thing was only used in the 4343's, but definitely recommend bypassing it if you haven't already. I won't go into it, but the thing is so poorly designed.

    On another note, I also just side mounted them, actually rotating the baffle and everything. It's pretty cool.

    It can be shown in the photo as it was done? What additional tools required? Should I had to solder?

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    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhail View Post
    It can be shown in the photo as it was done? What additional tools required? Should I had to solder?
    Sure I will take a photo. Basically just switch it to biamp mode if that's what you want. Remove the small panel with the switch attached (do not try to pull the switch apart). Every connection that the switch makes, you want to replace by de-soldering those wires from the switch and just soldering them to each other. There are a several wires that you can disconnect from the switch that are not used in biamp mode. In the end there will be no wires connected to the switch. Just leave the switch in there. Do one speaker first and check it against the other and check that it works, then do the other. For the woofers in biamp mode I just connect straight to the woofers by feeding a wire through the bass port. This can all be reversed if you want to put it back to normal for resale.

    Tools: philips screw driver, soldering iron, solder, heat shrink. Yes I recommend only doing this if you have experience soldering. Its not hard but you dont want a bad solder joint. Takes about 30 mins per speaker.

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    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Happy to say my 4345 clones never had one!

    Ha nice one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhail View Post
    It can be shown in the photo as it was done? What additional tools required? Should I had to solder?
    Mikhail I saw this post and wanted to do mine. I wrote up a how to for the 4343B http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ingle-amp-mode

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    Quote Originally Posted by warpig View Post
    Mikhail I saw this post and wanted to do mine. I wrote up a how to for the 4343B http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ingle-amp-mode
    I am NOT suggesting that simplifying a signal path, any signal path isn't a "good" thing.............BUT, if the OP's switch looked like yours it is no wonder removing or by-passing them yielded an improvement in sound quality

    I have a hard time believing that anyone owning a pair of speakers this nice would run them with a switch so heavily corroded; and DeOxit isn't going to clean up shit like that, not in a million years

    That's 35+ years of crap on those contacts, what would you expect?! They've a layer of oxidation so thick it's a solid now and it's black!

    Pain in the ass to service properly after all of these DECADES? Yes, can take hours to perform properly (I have to deal with them often with my ancient tube equipment, exactly the same switches) but extremely poor sonics blamed on the switch per se being used in that current state?

    Hardly fair to blame the switch, proper, for that one; blame the real guilty party, Mother Nature

    Exactly the same as the bad rap suffered by the old Aetna-Pollak controls; properly serviced, you'd never know they were there

    Has anyone tried actually servicing one of these switches for the sake of comparison? (squirting a little contact enhancer doesn't count)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    Yep I agree with you, the sound quality improvement was due to the fact that it's really corroded (mine was even worse than warpigs). So yeah if was cleaned up and sweet it might be just as good. Thing is also after so many years of use there are other problems with mine. The contacts are riveted on at one point only, these had come loose and can actually rotate a bit, one was shorted on the mounting screw, they've also lost their bite a bit and don't make contact properly. I've decided I only want to biamp now, so no need for the switch.



    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I am NOT suggesting that simplifying a signal path, any signal path isn't a "good" thing.............BUT, if the OP's switch looked like yours it is no wonder removing or by-passing them yielded an improvement in sound quality

    I have a hard time believing that anyone owning a pair of speakers this nice would run them with a switch so heavily corroded; and DeOxit isn't going to clean up shit like that, not in a million years

    That's 35+ years of crap on those contacts, what would you expect?! They've a layer of oxidation so thick it's a solid now and it's black!

    Pain in the ass to service properly after all of these DECADES? Yes, can take hours to perform properly (I have to deal with them often with my ancient tube equipment, exactly the same switches) but extremely poor sonics blamed on the switch per se being used in that current state?

    Hardly fair to blame the switch, proper, for that one; blame the real guilty party, Mother Nature

    Exactly the same as the bad rap suffered by the old Aetna-Pollak controls; properly serviced, you'd never know they were there

    Has anyone tried actually servicing one of these switches for the sake of comparison? (squirting a little contact enhancer doesn't count)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldjazz View Post
    Yep I agree with you, the sound quality improvement was due to the fact that it's really corroded (mine was even worse than warpigs). So yeah if was cleaned up and sweet it might be just as good. Thing is also after so many years of use there are other problems with mine. The contacts are riveted on at one point only, these had come loose and can actually rotate a bit, one was shorted on the mounting screw, they've also lost their bite a bit and don't make contact properly. I've decided I only want to biamp now, so no need for the switch.
    I understand
    Broken, or if you do not need it, a switch, either way, can go
    I wasn't calling you on your choice; they are your speakers
    Just addressing the all too common phenomena in general (blaming parts as being bad when in fact it's the maintenance or lack thereof)

    Really creates a headache (to use the example a second time) with AR restorations if you want them to retain their original sound and electrical characteristics (people just reflexively ripping them out)

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I understand
    Broken, or if you do not need it, a switch, either way, can go
    I wasn't calling you on your choice; they are your speakers
    Just addressing the all too common phenomena in general (blaming parts as being bad when in fact it's the maintenance or lack thereof)

    Really creates a headache (to use the example a second time) with AR restorations if you want them to retain their original sound and electrical characteristics (people just reflexively ripping them out)
    Okay, but . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Timbers
    I imagine you guys have talked about and tried lots of things to get the most out of the system. I will mention a few things that I would do if I had a pair at home for my primary system.
    • Get rid of the bi-amp switch. Hardwire it in which ever mode you want it. The switch is not that great.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Okay, but . . .
    It is widely known by most (and I believe that I mentioned the fact) that the more simple a signal path, the better
    Same as with controls, pots etc et al.
    Same as the old adage: there is no connector better than no connector.............but if one wants or needs the switch, pot or control to deal with an issue that was the reason for the device's inclusion in the first place, then it would only make sense to keep it in top working order

    No matter what Greg Timbers says, one way or the other (which in this case conflicts with my remarks in no way; he is suggesting the same end results)

    Should be obvious that my comments were directed towards anyone wishing to retain both options

    Makes sense to me

    Take care when reading and (mis)quoting/(mis)representing, correcting posts Hardly and endorsement for keeping it, only maintaining it if you do:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I understand
    Broken, or if you do not need it, a switch, either way, can go
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I am NOT suggesting that simplifying a signal path, any signal path isn't a "good" thing.............BUT, if the OP's switch looked like yours it is no wonder removing or by-passing them yielded an improvement in sound quality

  14. #14
    Senior Member Goldjazz's Avatar
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    Yep agree. Actually I have a pair of AR3a's that a previous owner had ripped the pots out of. It's one of my (many) planned projects to restore those back in one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I understand
    Broken, or if you do not need it, a switch, either way, can go
    I wasn't calling you on your choice; they are your speakers
    Just addressing the all too common phenomena in general (blaming parts as being bad when in fact it's the maintenance or lack thereof)

    Really creates a headache (to use the example a second time) with AR restorations if you want them to retain their original sound and electrical characteristics (people just reflexively ripping them out)

  15. #15
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I remember reading many times that the monitors with the switches were due to demands of the marketing department which felt they'd sell better if they weren't bi-amp-only. It's a compromise the engineers and designers didn't want to include and tell us we'd be better off without and that it could have been better executed had they used a better quality switch . . . or just left it out.

    I understood your point but ARs weren't the topic of the thread.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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