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Thread: Compact monitor

  1. #1
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Compact monitor

    Hi all,

    What do you think about combining the new M2 waveguide driven by a 4" driver with a 2206 for a compact monitor type DYI speaker? An updated Array 1200...

    It would probably have to be active to take advantage of the waveguide.

    Maybe there will be a need for a UHF unit as the 2430k probably goes higher than the 2447/245x drivers.

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    Kind regards
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  2. #2
    Senior Member Horn Fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    Hi all,

    What do you think about combining the new M2 waveguide driven by a 4" driver with a 2206 for a compact monitor type DYI speaker? An updated Array 1200...

    It would probably have to be active to take advantage of the waveguide.

    Maybe there will be a need for a UHF unit as the 2430k probably goes higher than the 2447/245x drivers.

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    Kind regards
    //RoB
    The 2206 is an awesome driver for a two way system. A large format compression driver won't give you the sizzle of a tweeter. Can't see that you have room for a tweeter anyway. Isn't the 2430K used in a three way configuration? What is your application?

  3. #3
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi,

    The intention is to build a small "monitor type" HiFi speaker for home use. I don't have space for large floorstanding units so these would would be as close as I can get I guess. They will be supported by two SUB1500 subs in closed cabinets.

    I have a few 2206's so I plan to find a matched pair.

    If there is a need for a UHF unit I think there is space to mount someting at the bottom of the waveguide . I will check clearence over the weekend.

    Kind regards
    //RoB
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  4. #4
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    AFAIK that horn cannot be obtained as a part...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Horn Fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    AFAIK that horn cannot be obtained as a part...
    Yes, that would preclude any design plans. All I can suggest, is to refrain from using a constant directivity wave guide for HiFi. By their very design they are a high frequency killer, and subject to phase incoherency issues.

  6. #6
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Cool 2206 2-way systems

    I'm liking the resurgence of 2206 2-way designs.

    Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  7. #7
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    The plan is to use 2451Be's and if they do not go all the way, to use 045Ti's.
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  8. #8
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Your design looks very similar to this pair I have, but with the newer horn. These were built by the JBL Custom shop and originally installed at the Experience Music Project in Seattle.
    The custom shop designed an internal, passive crossover that gives them a nice flat response from about 75hz to 18k. I haven't sketched out the component values, but they would probably be somewhat different for the other horn.

    Drivers are 2206 and 2450.

    I really enjoy the sound of these, the are super detailed and dynamic.
    I had them setup outside last summer on top of a pair of 2241 woofer cabinets for my daughters 16th birthday party. Wow, given some space and some wattage even better.
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  9. #9
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Cool!

    I have never seen those. What horn is that? Is it a JBL horn? Do they have a JBL type number?

    That layout is very close to what I want to do. I bet they sound fantastic. Is it a 2" or 1,5" driver, ie 2450 or 2450SL?

    I will try to keep mine as compact as possible as they will be wall mount.

    I'm using 2451 drivers.

    All the best

    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  10. #10
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    These horns came from the JBL Custom Shop. I assume they were one-offs, since they don't have any numbers on them

    The motors are 2450, but the horn has an integral housing that fits over the driver. My guess is that they pulled the covers off the 2450 and bolted horns over the top. The diaphragms are the ribbed 2450 version
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  11. #11
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    That was neat. I have not seen them before. Is the 2450 without the snout identical to a 2450SL, except for the dia? Do you have any measures on the horns/box. Pretty cool that the horn cover the driver. –Learning every day.

    I built a similar speaker using a SR4722X cabinets with 2206 and 2450SL on 2332. I had to make distance rings to the 2206 and add some acoustic foam to the sides to mitigate the standing waves from the recessed baffle. Maybe yours are better and it is not a problem.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...highlight=suck

    Well, I need to manufacture adapters as the 2451 has a wider bold circle than the D2. I had hoped to have them this weekend but I won't get them until next week. I will post some measures then. Same with the VTX F12 horn, uses the smaller bolt circle. I’m making an adapter for them too. Please see picture.



    All the best
    //RoB
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    That was neat. I have not seen them before. Is the 2450 without the snout identical to a 2450SL, except for the dia? Do you have any measures on the horns/box. Pretty cool that the horn cover the driver. –Learning every day.

    Here are some measurements I took a while ago.

    The first is with both the 2206 and the horn together.

    The second is cut off at 200hz for some reason, but includes a small inductor I added to try and bring down the bump at 12k.
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  13. #13
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Compact Monitor update

    John W, that is very good measurement results. I hope to get near that with my small project.

    Ok, here is some update on the Compact Monitor project progress.

    We are planning to use the 2206 beneath the M2 waveguide in an active setup. Driver will be a 2451Be and/or 2451Ti. I have looked at other 12” but it seem like the improvement, except possible for the fantastic 1200Fe, is not really that big when used with subs (80Hz) and crossed into the M2 waveguide at 800-ish Hz. I don’t really have room for a 15” in this system, so a 12 will have to do. 2006 should do a good job there. Comments or suggestions?

    I have tried the M2 waveguide with the 2451Ti’s and that resulted in some interesting measures. It appears that the 2451 Ti is a bit sensitive to this horn, albeit nice and predictable. The picture shows two different drivers in the same graph just for a sanity check. Please disregard the black line which is the sum of them. The differences are close enough to be the result of position in my improvised measuring setup. I normally do measures out door and will do that here also later.

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    Attached is a picture of the M2 from the front and rear side.

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    They do not come with a driver mount and as far as I know the original is not available, so I had to make some of my own. Even if they were available they are designed for the D2 with a smaller nose that the 245x / 476 4” drivers. The larger bold circle of the 2451 is almost as bid as the mount circle on the horn. I had some adapters made by aircraft quality aluminium and drilled them for both the large and small JBL bolt circle. I also made some adapters for the VTXF12 horn to accept the larger bolt patter of the 2451. Please see picture.

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    I will revert with more info as we progress. Please come with suggestions and comments on the project.

    All the best
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  14. #14
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Some additional info

    The new VTX F12 horn seems good and attached is a picture of that beside the M2. -Pretty big difference size wise.

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    Even the VTX F12 horn seems to be an improvement over the older PT-F95HT. It is being offered by JBL in the new VTX series with the D2 and in the STX with the 2453 so it should be ok with booth. Attached is a measure with two 2451H Ti drivers. Please disregards the black line.

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    It appears that the Ti drivers may not reach all the way with the M2 waveguides but maybe the Be’s can. However there is room to introduce a 045 in the bottom of the M2 waveguide. Pls see picture. Let's see what happens with some EQ applied to those curves

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    All the best
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    We are planning to use the 2206 beneath the M2 waveguide in an active setup. Driver will be a 2451Be and/or 2451Ti. I have looked at other 12” but it seem like the improvement, except possible for the fantastic 1200Fe, is not really that big when used with subs (80Hz) and crossed into the M2 waveguide at 800-ish Hz. I don’t really have room for a 15” in this system, so a 12 will have to do. 2006 should do a good job there. Comments or suggestions?
    Compared to the 1200FE, the 2206H has the large four-inch voice coil and increased sensitivity.

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