4365's in the US? Yup.

[4313B]

It is not 1500FE in the 4365. It is 1501FE with cloth surround.

It is interesting that GT says S4700 is more preferable than 4365. I wonder what he meant more specifically.
On paper the 4365 has better HF-transducer and the S4700 has better LF. So that should make it more or less status quo? Better crossover network in S4700?

Personal preference?

Also, within the context of the conversation at the time, the 4365 wasn't available in the U.S. so that could possibly have been a factor in the answer, although I am pretty sure that it was primarily that he was very happy with the way the S4700 had come together. Another factor could possibly have been how other people at JBL responded to both systems?

Basically what it comes down to for me personally is, if I had a pair of S4700's they would stay stock. I wouldn't screw around with them. They are plug and play. In short, I would be happy with them just as they are. I have a pair of Tannoy loudspeakers that I feel the same way about. I will never modify them.

The 4365's on the other hand I consider fair game. I like the individual components, I like the fact that some of them are also used to great effect in the K2-S9900 and DD65000. I like the modification potential.

Despite his answer I went with the 4365 components.


Oh and yes, crossover networks are a major component.

[4313B]

I am not sure the 2216nd is considered "better" than the 1501Fe.
I think it is well suited for the M2 partly because of the shape of the cone that allows for a smoother directivity transition between the woofer and the horn (as explained by Charles Sprinkle). The wire material might also be better in terms of dynamics, but beside that it looks like the 1501Fe has lower distortion down low, and other interesting goodies. The sandwich cone looks identical to the 1501AL-2.

Nice!

Like I said, a person really can't go wrong with any of the current fifteen-inch low frequency transducers be they ferrite, alnico or neo.

[bubbleboy76]

The 4365's on the other hand I consider fair game. I like the individual components, I like the fact that some of them are also used to great effect in the K2-S9900 and DD65000. I like the modification potential.

This is interesting to me as an owner of 4365. What is, to you, the modification potential? Anything specific you are thinking of?

[4313B]

This is interesting to me as an owner of 4365. What is, to you, the modification potential? Anything specific you are thinking of?

Beyond bi-amping, replacing the passive filter with an active filter and DSP solution in a similar manner as JBL did with the M2.

One option is to run voltage drives of the stock passive filter and then plug those voltage drives into an active DSP solution such as a Crown.

Another option would be to tune the enclosure lower and apply the kind of boost JBL applies in the M2. I started with the M2 file and then tweaked it for the 4365 components in the enclosure I built. It came out very well. I was quite pleased.

One doesn't necessarily have to do anything with the passive filter on the 045, just leave it in, or out, whichever one prefers. I didn't bother with the 045's at all but that is just me and it doesn't mean that I won't in the future. I have the passive filters and can hook them up whenever. Once I veneer the enclosures and get them where I want them located I'll do the whole room measurement / loudspeaker adjustment gig. I have no doubt that the final Crown file will be different than what it was when I took it all apart to veneer.

[bubbleboy76]

Beyond bi-amping, replacing the passive filter with an active filter and DSP solution in a similar manner as JBL did with the M2.

One option is to run voltage drives of the stock passive filter and then plug those voltage drives into an active DSP solution such as a Crown.

Another option would be to tune the enclosure lower and apply the kind of boost JBL applies in the M2. I started with the M2 file and then tweaked it for the 4365 components in the enclosure I built. It came out very well. I was quite pleased.

One doesn't necessarily have to do anything with the passive filter on the 045, just leave it in, or out, whichever one prefers. I didn't bother with the 045's at all but that is just me and it doesn't mean that I won't in the future. I have the passive filters and can hook them up whenever. Once I veneer the enclosures and get them where I want them located I'll do the whole room measurement / loudspeaker adjustment gig. I have no doubt that the final Crown file will be different than what it was when I took it all apart to veneer.

Feels good I am not alone in this thoughts, that I also have implemented. Some people went after me like nuts...

Do you want to publish your settings, and how they evolve? Would be very interesting to see. I can post my settings as well. Maybe in a new thread, though.

[JuniorJBL]

I really like the looks of your 4365's Barry!!

And someday I will get to hear them and your other creations as well. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Maybe the family needs to take a trip to LV for some camping and some RZR/ATV riding in the desert!!



4313B, I would gladly have your MDF monstrosities over anything I have ever made even if the wife disagrees!!

[4313B]

Feels good I am not alone in this thoughts, that I also have implemented. Some people went after me like nuts...

Do you want to publish your settings, and how they evolve? Would be very interesting to see. I can post my settings as well. Maybe in a new thread, though.

Yes. I'll post both projects. Like I posted elsewhere though, I am probably going to stick with a tweaked DD65000 or DD67000 passive filter for one of the projects.

[ivica]

Maybe... Maybe not.
My subjective opinion is that a person can't go wrong with any of them (1500FE series, 1500AL series, 2216Nd). I remember a time when there was only the 2235H.

Hi 4313B,

Am I right that 1500FE and 1500Al are 4-inch VC, while 2216Nd is 3-inch Voice Coil?

Regards
Ivica

[4313B]

Yes.

[ivica]

Yes.

Hi 4313B,

So, on 2216Nd, JBL has put large dust-cap (as on 4-inch VC models) in order to (I believe, mainly) reinforce the cone-membrane, and using dual VC construction have reduced 2-nd (even order harmonic distortions), but I would expect that model 1500Fe/AL or 2269 as 4-inch would be better for LF reproduction. May be even 2235/34 used in "compound box" would behave like mentioned newer models (??). May be the new-applied materials for cone are of important inflence too.

Regards
Ivica

[1audiohack]

So my friend is hooking his new 4365's up right now. They are going up against his pristine pair of 4343s.

Barry.

[Mr. Widget]

So my friend is hooking his new 4365's up right now. They are going up against his pristine pair of 4343s.

I would rather look at a pristine pair of 4343s, but if you're going to listen to them, well... the tables turn.

Please let us know what his thoughts on the comparison are.



Widget

[1audiohack]

Here is the short of it: there is a gorgeous pair of 4343's going up for sale in Wixom Michigan. I will start a new thread for them in market place.

Barry.

[1audiohack]

He said: I love them!!!!!!!

He is a live sound guy and has a pro shop and sound company that sells all things Harman Pro. Frankly I was a little worried that they might not impress him. Apparently that worry was unfounded. Today we talked and he said that he was hearing in his familiar test music details that he hadn't heard in years and when you play something with horns they are right there in your face like they should be.

Being fair he also questions the comparison to a 30 year old set of speakers wondering if the 4343's were also truly brand new, would they fair better? We agree that they likely would, at least a little.

I can tell you that he bought them on the same assumptions that I bought mine being that they have the right stuff to get the job done, four inch large format HF system and a monster motor 15 and a big rock solid box.

His comments on the LF is that they sound right. Everything we do has the bottom jacked up and that's the way we seem to like it. These arent bottom heavy but you know they have the headroom to be EQ'd.

I am really interested to hear Widgets take on the M2's that his pal has. I have come to trust his impressions as we seem to like and hear things much the same way. I kind of hope they don't knock him out, I am running out of room!

The pics I have of his 4343's are on my PC at work so I wont get that stuff posted 'till Tuesday.

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks for the update Barry!!

Good to know that people are receiving these well!!