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Thread: 4365's in the US? Yup.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    One thing that I first noticed when moving them around is how rigid the enclosured are. 1" MDF all around. They knock like a brick. They and away the most solid enclosures in my stable.
    That is a huge plus.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    I just checked the price of that thing, ouch! And you need 3 of them to run the pair of 4365:s all-in fully active (I myself made it a 2-way and skipped the UHF)
    To pay more for the amplification than the speakers feels somewhat wrong to me!
    Yeah... Crown is pretty proud of them. I've been playing around with the order of magnitude less expensive XTi 2 Series. They don't have as many PEQ points but so far that hasn't been a problem for me. And yes, if you set them up like the M2 configuration there is arguably no need for the UHF. They will not configure exactly like an M2 either, no 36 dB/octave filters and too few PEQ points for a complete M2 specification. Like I said though, JBL went arguably overboard with the M2 voltage drives, they wanted that graph to look as flawless as possible.

    Anyway... all these systems are just too cool for school. It's nice to see JBL with a stable of world class systems in this day and age. I had completely written off JBL Pro, and G.T. is quite obviously the driving force behind the best Consumer offerings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    That said the K2s do have a much more sophisticated and more costly network.
    They are all very similar in sophistication. The cost is different amongst them though primarily due to peripherals.

    For those who like to simplify and compare networks:

    Sorry about the K2-S9900 PDF, KB is too large to post and I don't feel like loading Adobe Acrobat on this PC to try and optimize it.

    I posted all the LEAP files somewhere else in the forum showing their simplified schematics and voltage drives years ago to highlight their similarities/differences. Two things of note, the differences in the horns used and the type of voicing G.T. desired from each of the systems.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Networks 4365 DD65000 DD66000 DD67000 K2- S9900

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    That is a huge plus. For those who like to simplify and compare networks: Sorry about the K2-S9900 PDF, KB is too large to post and I don't feel like loading Adobe Acrobat on this PC to try and optimize it. I posted all the LEAP files somewhere else in the forum showing their simplified schematics and voltage drives years ago to highlight their similarities/differences. Two things of note, the differences in the horns used and the type of voicing G.T. desired from each of the systems.

    Hi

    Just to be in the same place

    regards
    Ivica
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Could you please describe the improvements you sought and achieved by going active?
    Widget
    I think it is no secret that the 4365 is voiced for the Japanese market and rice walls!

    They sounded to thin for me. Male voices for example. And I lacked bass. I have had subwoofers before, JBL Array 1500 and JBL TiK
    I also lacked details. The speakers before at my home were Burmester 961 mk3 with AMT tweeter.

    With the active crossover, I have implemented the 8db augmentation of bass from around 135Hz (if I remember correctly) and down just like the M2-crossover. This made it sound exactly like I wanted in the bass-region! I also took away the large roommode I had with the PEQ.

    I have tried to roughly implement the JBL target housecurve. This could be tweaked on forever, but I am very satisfied right now.

    I have not tried to timealign at the crossover point yet with delay. This will make it sound even better.

    When going active it was like an very thick veil was removed from the sound.

    Much more dynamic sound as well.

    I have DIY Hypex nCore amplifiers (class-d 400W). Oppo BDP-105 source. DBX 260 Driverack. Fully balanced signal chain.

    One thing that I did not expect was that just introducing the driverack in the signal chain improved the sound. I thought it would degrade the sound a little bit. Probably it can drive my long signalcables better than the Oppo.

  4. #34
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I doubt that they would purposefully de-tune a speaker to keep it in line with it's pricing. That said the K2s do have a much more sophisticated and more costly network.

    I listened to the 4365s stock for several days and was quite impressed with them. I do have a very nice front end with a pair of Halo JC-1 mono blocks driving the speakers which may have helped.

    Could you please describe the improvements you sought and achieved by going active?


    Widget
    The JC-1s are decent amps. You could do a lot worse.

    It's interesting that these high end JBLs are for the most part very sensitive, but thrive on high powered amps...
    S4700 owner.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    With the active crossover, I have implemented the 8db augmentation of bass from around 135Hz (if I remember correctly) and down just like the M2-crossover. This made it sound exactly like I wanted in the bass-region!


    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    Hi

    Just to be in the same place

    regards
    Ivica
    Thank you!

    Right off the bat, notice how similar the component values are for the 1501Fe in the 4365 and the 1501AL-1 in the S9900, differing only in the shunt capacitor value by a few uF to get the slopes just right for each transducer.

  6. #36
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    I think it is no secret that the 4365 is voiced for the Japanese market and rice walls!

    They sounded to thin for me. Male voices for example. And I lacked bass.
    Personally I think far too much has been made of Japanese voicing. From what had been posted on the web, my expectations were pretty low. Once I fired up the 4365s I was most impressed by their neutral sound, bass quality, and dynamics. In my room with my system they were not at all "lean". Uber deep bass extension? No, but they were certainly not lean like the K2-S9900s are.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    One thing that I did not expect was that just introducing the driverack in the signal chain improved the sound. I thought it would degrade the sound a little bit. Probably it can drive my long signalcables better than the Oppo.
    In every system that I have had no preamp or a passive preamp, I found the sense of "drive" to be greatly improved by adding a proper active line stage.



    Widget

  7. #37
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Personally I think far too much has been made of Japanese voicing.
    Widget
    The overall system was designed for a specific sonic character that appealed to the Japanese market. In general, it is marked by an overdamped bass response with the lowest octave gently rolled off. The bass is expected to extend to the deepest octave but not at the same volume level as the upper bass.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/everest.htm
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  8. #38
    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    HI All!

    I have wanted a pair of these since they were announced in what 2010? I complained long and loud about not being able to buy them here. I don't think anyone really cared what I had to say about it but when they were announced for sale here, well it was time to put some money where my mouth was/is.

    Thank you Mr Widget!
    Hallo!

    Congrats!!

    You have a very nice speaker system in your room.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    I think it is no secret that the 4365 is voiced for the Japanese market and rice walls!

    They sounded to thin for me. Male voices for example. And I lacked bass. I have had subwoofers before, JBL Array 1500 and JBL TiK
    I also lacked details. The speakers before at my home were Burmester 961 mk3 with AMT tweeter.

    With the active crossover, I have implemented the 8db augmentation of bass from around 135Hz (if I remember correctly) and down just like the M2-crossover. This made it sound exactly like I wanted in the bass-region! I also took away the large roommode I had with the PEQ.

    I have tried to roughly implement the JBL target housecurve. This could be tweaked on forever, but I am very satisfied right now.

    I have not tried to timealign at the crossover point yet with delay. This will make it sound even better.

    When going active it was like an very thick veil was removed from the sound.

    Much more dynamic sound as well.

    I have DIY Hypex nCore amplifiers (class-d 400W). Oppo BDP-105 source. DBX 260 Driverack. Fully balanced signal chain.

    One thing that I did not expect was that just introducing the driverack in the signal chain improved the sound. I thought it would degrade the sound a little bit. Probably it can drive my long signalcables better than the Oppo.
    The reason you have lack off bass in your room is not because of the speakers and it is more your room that produce the thin bass problem. Regarding your statement about room mode, no PEQ will remove a room mode. You have to provide with some measurements, like waterfallgraph and freq response to see if your statement holds.

    You are saying because you are bi-amping you have better sound now than with full range with passive x-over. If you have not done something regarding to the room acoustics then the sound would be the same, exept for the boost you have now in the bass. Still, some measurements before and after, bi-amp and full range, would be most welcome.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post
    I just checked the price of that thing, ouch! And you need 3 of them to run the pair of 4365:s all-in fully active (I myself made it a 2-way and skipped the UHF)
    To pay more for the amplification than the speakers feels somewhat wrong to me!
    Still don't understand why you removed the UHF

  11. #41
    Senior Member Mctwins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy76 View Post

    I have DIY Hypex nCore amplifiers (class-d 400W). Oppo BDP-105 source. DBX 260 Driverack. Fully balanced signal chain.
    Could you please explain how exactly you have bi-amped your system. I asume you have removed the passive x-over, right?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
    Could you please explain how exactly you have bi-amped your system. I asume you have removed the passive x-over, right?
    I will answer you in a PM in swedish to not destroy this thread. I think swedish will make us understand eachother better than in the past

  13. #43
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    1501Fe bass shy?

    I found the 1501Fe's to have plenty of LF energy!

    I like to describe the 1501Fe's as a cross between the LE-14 and 2235.

    Clarity of LE-14 bass with the authority of the 2235.

    Regards, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  14. #44
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    4365 test

    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    One thing that I first noticed when moving them around is how rigid the enclosures are. 1" MDF all around. They knock like a brick. They and away the most solid enclosures in my stable.
    Hi 1audiohack,

    Very nice presentation (in Italian) of the 4365 is presented here ( Audio review 05-2012, no 333):

    http://www.cieri.net/temp/JBL_4365_-..._(05-2012).pdf

    from the mentioned data it seems to me that H4365 has very wide ( +/-45 deg) off-axis dispersion up to 10kHz ( I think G.T. construction) but with about +3dB 'over-shoot' from say 3kHz to 9kHz in off-axis response.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post334328

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post344924


    Barry, does that introduce a kind of 'sharpness' in the reproduction.

    Regards
    Ivica

    regards,
    ivica

  15. #45
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hi All;

    Like Widget said, these have very neutral bass. With this I completely agree.

    It is interesting to me by comparison that my 4435's at a glance seem to have less bass than my 4430's but when there is real LF in the material the 4435's sound much cleaner and acurate than the 4430's.

    And like Ron said, these woofs are very capable.

    Hi Ivica; I don't want to use the wrong term and perpetuate the Aisan voice myth so I will carefully try to explain that these have the large format driver sound that I like. I call it presence. My 4350's have it also. The 4430's and 4435's don't have it and although the 1400 Arrays have the much better driver (435Al) than the 4430-4435's, they don't have it either. It's not bark or bite but it's bigger and brighter. Not everyone likes that, I really do.

    Oh yeah, Hi Doc! Get yourself and your bride on up here! Anytime, I just can't turn them off.

    All the best,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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