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Thread: New JBL waveguides, #5006812 90x50 vs PT-F95HF

  1. #1
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    New JBL waveguides, #5006812 90x50 vs PT-F95HF

    Hello,

    It seems like JBL keep producing new waveguides. There is some really good information here on the PT-F95HF and even some good measurements. Thank you.

    Now, that guide is from about 2002 and maybe there are newer and better horns. Among others there is a guide in the newer STX825 (#5006812). Does anybody here have info on that waveguide or the other new 1,5" guides JBL is producing.

    Are these giudes available as parts?

    thank you

    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  2. #2
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    No one looking at these new waveguides?

    There is also a new series speaker from JBL , VTX F12 ad F15.

    They seem to use the D2 driver and the STX825 waveguide.

    http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachm...ureNov2013.pdf

    Any views?

    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  3. #3
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    I think these are the exact same waveguides, but in a cheaper plastic version.

  4. #4
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi Pos,

    I thought that they were all made in plastic nowadays. The consumer horns seem to be made in Sonoglass but the pro stuff has to settle for plastic.

    Few of the new horn/waveguides appears to be cast aluminum. Some of the 2002 waveguides are aluminium (as described in Bulletin #31) but I don’t know about the newer ones. It is impossible to judge from the pictures, at least I cannot. Even the M2 waveguide looks like plastic.

    The STX825 waveguide is different compared to the PT-F95HF even if they share the same outer dimensions, coverage and basic design. If the new VTX F12/F15 is a third iteration is an open question as JBL has not posted “Exploded Views” for them yet. Maybe someone here has the part no for the VTX horn?

    It would be very interesting to know the difference, except for the obvious coverage differences, between the VTX F12/F15 waveguides and the M2 waveguide. Maybe they even sound reasonable alike with the M2 guide being more refined due to design and size. The driver is the same as M2.

    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  5. #5
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I have bought a few different waveguides including the VTX F12 guide and something else that may be of interest to forum members. I will post some measurements as soon as I get some driver adapters made.

    I have access to 2450SL, 2451Ti and 2451Be so it may give some guidance what these new guides can do with different diaphragms.

    Best regards
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  6. #6
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    hmmm, those look interesting..why am I DIYing speakers like this with old parts?? What would a pair of VTX F18S and F12 set me back?

  7. #7
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Pt-h95hf & 2450sl

    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    I have bought a few different waveguides including the VTX F12 guide and something else that may be of interest to forum members. I will post some measurements as soon as I get some driver adapters made.
    I have access to 2450SL, 2451Ti and 2451Be so it may give some guidance what these new guides can do with different diaphragms.
    ...RoB
    Hi sebackman,

    May be interesting experience with PT-H95HF and 2450SL applied

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post371066

    regards
    Ivica

  8. #8
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi

    I will try to measure the 2450SL on the newer VTX F12 horn this weekend and post here if time permits .

    Best regards
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  9. #9
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Hi sebackman/ RoB- do you have the factory part number for the horn from the VTX F12? I'm trying to find them here, but can't locate anything without that number.

    Thanks!

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  10. #10
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Measures

    Hi Gordon,

    Sorry, I should have updated this thread.

    Part number for the horn is #5006815. It is used also in the STX825. It looks like the older PT from the pictures but in reality it is slightly different. At least the ones I have. I bought a bunch of these and I'm swapping all my older horns to this one. Attached are some measures with different drivers. They measure real well and also sound excellent. A link is attached below.
    http://reconingspeakers.com/product/...006815-stx825/

    The 2450SL sounds real good on the VTX horn and the perceived difference to the M2 waveguide is surprisingly small compared to all other combos I have tested. The major difference is the sound stage, the M2 is much bigger and you are "in the music". No shadow on the VTX, it is probably a better choice than most other imho. Being small, plastic and ugly won't get you any optic brownie points :-). Maybe that is why they cannot use them in consumer stuff.

    The 1" version is also good and I have several friends changing plans when they heard the 1"/2226 combo with either 2206 or 2226. Personally I think the 2206 sound better as the XO will have to be >1kHz for the 1” driver horn combo. Just for trying I swapped in a Radian alu diaphragm in the 2426 on the 1" waveguide and that was a fantastic combo with the 2206. -Well worth a thought as the 2426 may be easier to come by.

    Kind regards
    //RoB

    Below JBL 2450SL on VTX

    Name:  2450SL on VTX.png
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    Below JBL 2451Be on VTX

    Name:  2451Be on VTX.png
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    Below JBL 2450Ti on VTX

    Name:  2451Ti on VTX.png
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    Below Beyma CP755Ti on VTX

    Name:  CP755Ti on VTX.png
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    And for comparison below the JBL 2451Ti on 2332

    Name:  2451Ti on 2332.png
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  11. #11
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    New build

    Hi

    Attached are some pictures of some speakers I'm building. The larger pair is an old Sr4722X box that I rebuilt and put some bracing in. Woofer is 2206 and the HF is now VTX horns. There is another thread on them here with the difference being the 2332 horn being swapped against a pair of VTX waveguides. They are passive XO and a Crown CTS600 amp.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...highlight=2206

    The smaller cabinets are also built for 2206 and I'm building 2 pairs, a pair for the work shop and a pair for the garage. They will be equipped with 2206, VTX and one pair with 2451Ti's and the other pair with 2450SL. Albeit being ported they are too small for meaningful bass so they will be accompanied by some 2226 subs and run active via an BSS Omnidrive and some Crown CTS amps.

    Kind regards
    //RoB

    Name:  DSC_3459.jpg
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    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  12. #12
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    I'm seriously thinking about getting four of these, to go with four 2447H horn drivers I have here. Yes, I know I will have to brace up the back of the horn driver significantly!

    Unfortunately, JBL seems to be out of these for about 2 months?! Aagh.

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  13. #13
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    Hello Sebackman,
    When you talk about the 1" version do you mean this http://reconingspeakers.com/product/...ns-338800-001?
    Thanks,
    -Steve

  14. #14
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,

    Yes, those are the right ones. They have the same geometry as the VTX horn but in 1” version. Albeit much simpler in construction they sound and measure very well. If you search on this forum I think Widget and Zilch (RIP) posted some measures a while back when they were testing 1,5” horns.

    Maybe this is a mark II version that look reasonable the same but may be slightly changed as with the VTX vs older PT as I'm getting very good results. The way they are built you need a driver support behind the horn. I also treat them with some rubber compound on the rear side to get them more acoustic dead and dampen the rather thin plastic. Don't know if it makes any difference but it feels better :-). The VTX horn is much sturdier.

    I'm swapping out all my older 2370’s and others for this horn with good results. All my boxes are for home use so there are probably other horns that throw longer under controlled forms but I don't need that. I found that for home use, this is a real gem for 1" drivers. -Especially with an alu diaphragm.

    Kind regards
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  15. #15
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Small correction of typo above.

    Above the 1” horn/driver combo is if course 1”/2426 (not 2226) and with either 2226 or 2206 woofers.

    The third graph is a 2451Ti 1,5” (not 2450Ti 2”) with VTX horns.

    All the best
    //RoB
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

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