Amp for JBL L300 system

[BMWCCA]

It's not about you, and it's not a general indictment of Crown.

But it is about the Original Poster who asked for an amp under $500 and hasn't gotten a lot of help. I have three PS400s and probably six PS200s, and none of them has blown up anything in several decades of use.

The poor OP just wanted some suggestions and he got two posts saying why he shouldn't choose "pro amps" and two posts specifying problems with two different specific Crown amp models, neither of which where in my original recommendation and only one of which even met the OP's price limits.

I'm just trying to help answer the guy's questions, but if y'all wanna use me as the straight man for your war stories, be my guest!

Not that any of this makes much difference since the OP is currently a one-post wonder and has yet to return.

And he's in Virginia, where (if we only knew where) he could probably get a lot of help—and maybe even the loan of an amp to try.

[martin2395]

No one has mentioned yet that a separate power amp will probably need a preamp

Old Bryston 4B could fit the bill but we are speaking about 30+ years old gear that could've been abused and even though it will most probably need some TLC.
The thing with those vinage JBL's is that the horn-lens combination is painfully revealing (way more than most of the modern gear) and requires careful matching. With a grainy, brutal sounding amp like the Phase Linear they will sound just nasty.

It's not the easiest task to find a suitable amp for them when you're on a budget. The big "15 loves powerful transistors but at the same time it must have enough finesse and smoothness for the mid and high region.

[audiomagnate]

Mine sounded wonderful on my old Nak PA-7 (usually over $500) but also with a BGW 620B (same power but well under $500). No fans and plenty of current capability are what I look for in an amp.

[Dave_72]

No one has mentioned yet that a separate power amp will probably need a preamp

Old Bryston 4B could fit the bill but we are speaking about 30+ years old gear that could've been abused and even though it will most probably need some TLC.
The thing with those vinage JBL's is that the horn-lens combination is painfully revealing (way more than most of the modern gear) and requires careful matching. With a grainy, brutal sounding amp like the Phase Linear they will sound just nasty.

It's not the easiest task to find a suitable amp for them when you're on a budget. The big "15 loves powerful transistors but at the same time it must have enough finesse and smoothness for the mid and high region.

Yeah, true. So are you saying to get an integrated?

Well, the Bryston would be the smallest risk as you can send it to Bryston and have them check it out and/or fix/update it for a small fee. An old Aragon or B&K might work too.

I personally would stay away from Adcom, Rotel, and NAD just to name a few. They are cheap, but they really don't sound that great, imo. It's not the real stereo sound where you can't discern any sound coming from the speakers.

I see. Yeah, I guess bi-amping would be a good idea. That didn't dawn on me until now.

[martin2395]

For $500 I would probably go for a integrated as finding a decent pre/power combination for $500 may be tricky but you can always go bargain hunting

I think that Rotel is an 'OK' brand, NAD not really because even though they may sound decent (I liked the C372, lively sound and punchy bottom) they are full of very cheap parts and overall their build quality is low.

A Denon PMA-1560 could fit the bill if you can find one for sale. I delivers a healthy 150W @ channel at 8 ohms and has great control on the bass.

[BMWCCA]

No one has mentioned yet that a separate power amp will probably need a preamp

If someone says "amp", I assume they mean amplifier. If they're asking for an amp, I assume they already have a pre-amp. If they have a pair of L300s I assume they know enough about hi-fi to know the difference between an amplifier and an integrated amplifier. But then I almost went out of business once underestimating the stupidity of the general public.

And still the OP has yet to return.

Maybe you're right, and my assumptions were all about me. I guess I have about nine pre-amps around, if you count the Emotiva XDA-2, the Soundcraftsmen Pre-Tuners, and several Soundcraftsmen Pre-EQ combinations. I haven't owned an integrated or a receiver since I dumped my Kenwood back around 1968 and replaced it with a Mac C20 and a Fisher SA1000.

[tjm001]

If someone says "amp", I assume they mean amplifier. If they're asking for an amp, I assume they already have a pre-amp. If they have a pair of L300s I assume they know enough about hi-fi to know the difference between an amplifier and an integrated amplifier. But then I almost went out of business once underestimating the stupidity of the general public.

And still the OP has yet to return.

Maybe you're right, and my assumptions were all about me. I guess I have about nine pre-amps around, if you count the Emotiva XDA-2, the Soundcraftsmen Pre-Tuners, and several Soundcraftsmen Pre-EQ combinations. I haven't owned an integrated or a receiver since I dumped my Kenwood back around 1968 and replaced it with a Mac C20 and a Fisher SA1000.

Thanks all. I was out of town and traveling the the last 10 days or so. I appreciate all the info. Yes, I am aware of the need for a preamp. Believe it or not I've been using an ancient Dynakit preamp that I built back in the 1960s. That was going to be my next post. Thanks again.
Tom

[Dave_72]

For $500 I would probably go for a integrated as finding a decent pre/power combination for $500 may be tricky but you can always go bargain hunting

I think that Rotel is an 'OK' brand, NAD not really because even though they may sound decent (I liked the C372, lively sound and punchy bottom) they are full of very cheap parts and overall their build quality is low.

A Denon PMA-1560 could fit the bill if you can find one for sale. I delivers a healthy 150W @ channel at 8 ohms and has great control on the bass.

Yeah, probably. I agree with you on Rotel and NAD. I'm not familiar with that Denon unit. But, I know, like Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, etc. are capable of making great stuff.

[martin2395]

Rotel is a strange bird because the older ones were built in Taiwan and somewhere in the mid 90's their moved the production to China and their quality dropped.

I had a Taiwan Made RA-980BX myself and it had amazing build quality, that thing was literally FULL of Rubycon Black Gate F caps and even the 4x 10.000uF PSU caps were sourced from BHC/Aerovox, custom made for Rotel.
Rotel specs it as 2x100W / 8 ohms and 2x 190W / 4 ohms (DIN) with peak current delivery of 80A.

The Denon I mentioned in my previous message was TOTL integrated at the time, I owned various models from the x60 range and they all sounded at least good.
I also like the older Sony ES amps a lot but they all suffer from cold solder joints, literally everywhere. The whole board has to be redone.

[Dave_72]

Rotel is a strange bird because the older ones were built in Taiwan and somewhere in the mid 90's their moved the production to China and their quality dropped.

I had a Taiwan Made RA-980BX myself and it had amazing build quality, that thing was literally FULL of Rubycon Black Gate F caps and even the 4x 10.000uF PSU caps were sourced from BHC/Aerovox, custom made for Rotel.
Rotel specs it as 2x100W / 8 ohms and 2x 190W / 4 ohms (DIN) with peak current delivery of 80A.

The Denon I mentioned in my previous message was TOTL integrated at the time, I owned various models from the x60 range and they all sounded at least good.
I also like the older Sony ES amps a lot but they all suffer from cold solder joints, literally everywhere. The whole board has to be redone.

I see, very well then. Well, I guess it's not all Rotel, just most of it. I take it that amp was an exception to the rule so to speak.

That's cool about the Denon. I'm a big fan of Japanese high end like Accuphase and Luxman. But, most recently, Pioneer (mainly TAD) and Yamaha have shown what they can do as far as high end is concerned.

[Audiobeer]

Yeah, true. So are you saying to get an integrated?

Well, the Bryston would be the smallest risk as you can send it to Bryston and have them check it out and/or fix/update it for a small fee. An old Aragon or B&K might work too.

I personally would stay away from Adcom, Rotel, and NAD just to name a few. They are cheap, but they really don't sound that great, imo. It's not the real stereo sound where you can't discern any sound coming from the speakers.

I see. Yeah, I guess bi-amping would be a good idea. That didn't dawn on me until now.

Don't sweat it. I could bi-amp my pro version, the 4333's but not my L300s.

[Dave_72]

Don't sweat it. I could bi-amp my pro version, the 4333's but not my L300s.

Ok, no problem. Thanks.

[antoninus9]

What are some good amp choices to power a JBL L300 or equivalent system without going off the deep end? Thanks.

I would refer you to JBL's power requirements doc first: http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/spkpwfaq.pdf. The speakers will work with many amplifiers, but if accuracy is the goal, then the choices become easier. The L300 has very large woofers that perform more accurately when the dampening factor of the amplifier is high (500-1000). (See Bryston's FAQ on Dampening Factor http://www.bryston.com/pages/faq.html.)

You'll probably want to use 10 AWG wire (Belden is a good choice).

In this case the question becomes "which amplifiers meet this criteria?"

Please know that I am not recommending Bryston by referring to their FAQ. There are many amplifiers that will work well.

[BMWCCA]

The speakers will work with many amplifiers, but if accuracy is the goal, then the choices become easier. The L300 has very large woofers that perform more accurately when the dampening factor of the amplifier is high (500-1000). (See Bryston's FAQ on Dampening Factor http://www.bryston.com/pages/faq.html.)

BTW, it's Damping Factor, not "dampening". Many would say it's an over-rated spec and that anything over 200 is enough. I have Crown amps where the Damping Factor is shown as >20,000. Does that make them 40-times more capable than the Brystons?

[antoninus9]

Auto-correction doesn't always auto-correct correctly.

In the best case scenario about 100 damping factor is all you can expect, regardless of amplifier. It's true that the impact of damping can be overstated, especially with smaller drivers. My experience has been that higher damping amps have much better control over larger woofers. Many people claim it causes the system to sound "brighter," but I believe this perception is primarily related to woofer control. I agree with the engineers at JBL that high power amplifiers work better with these speakers, allowing them to reveal subtle details that are less apparent with less power. I've also noticed that the engineers at Harman International almost always build spec their best amps for high current, wide bandwidth, and high damping factor. This falls right in line with the white papers from JBL, and my experience using their products over the past 35 years.

This is why I provided the two links, instead of recommending any specific amplifier. In my opinion, the brand and model are irrelevant. To me, the most important factors are how the amplifier operates under real world conditions, and how that impacts the sound of my system.

If it makes you happy to believe that Crown are 40 times more capable than Bryston, or any other amplifier, then I'm happy to agree. I'm pulling my old Macro Reference out of the closet tonight! (Wow! I forgot how much it weighs. Better get the wife to help me.)