Questions from newbie

[coachmorin]

Good day all,

I'm very happy to be now part of this forum. I have been fan of JBL since the 80's when I started my interest in sound. I presently still own the original family system which is a Harman Kardon PM 645 vxi,deck, tuner and a mint pair of JBL L80T. I also own different pair of speakers ( Canton Le109, BW CM1, energy, and different amp Cambridge 640A, Denon 3805...) But in all, the sound I like, colored or not, is the JBL sound. Tight bass, crisp highs( yes I like the 035ti).

With the new home, I have moved the L80T into the HT room as front. They do an amazing job with the 3805 and the projector. That leaves me with the HK and the BW CM1 for the upper room which is basically 16 x 20, with 8' to 20' ceilings. The CM1 are good speakers, but they are completely lost in this room. I have finally convinced WAF, to accept tour speakers again.

With all that said, I'm looking for opinions to certain questions if possible. I know this is all subjective, but I really enjoy other people ideas.

1. The PM 645 is still fully original. Still going good. But I feel it has lost the crispiness in the mids/highs and maybe some control over bass. Note that this amp, in the 1990's has seen a lot of party and the thermal protection in the transformer has been blown 3 times. Yeah, not good, but hey, we were young. Would it be worth it to get is recapped and service? Or I should look for something like it ? or maybe a HK 930 twin? Looking at the new HK, ain't convince they are the same quality.

2. Should I be looking at L80T again or maybe I should be looking at L100T ? ( 43xxx etc) ? Or even, worth it to try to listen to L880 or the latest studio 580 with the horn? ( I emailed the distributor of JBL and they have nothing around to be demoed in their dealers list, except the studio 530 bookshelves). Remember, I love the L80T sound ( the one I have does not have the T3 crossover upgrade).

Thanks all for the input and opinions. Again, I'm really happy that I have found this JBL forum!

[1audiohack]

Hello coachmorin;

Welcome to the Lansing forum!

It looks like a pretty good sized room. What do you mean when you say tour speakers?

There is so much to factor like how loud you listen and budget being two primary considerations.

I myself like large format speakers like 4350's or the 4435's at least. I like big amps to.

What are you after?

All the best,
Barry.

[coachmorin]

Hello coachmorin;

Welcome to the Lansing forum!

It looks like a pretty good sized room. What do you mean when you say tour speakers?

I meant full range speakers...Since right now I have a small bookshelf the BW CM1.

There is so much to factor like how loud you listen and budget being two primary considerations.

Needs to be able to deliver some pretty good SPL at time, like the L80T can. The HK in its days, could give very very good SPL with all the qualities I'm looking for. Tight bass, crisp highs, clear mids. Budget for speakers is around 1500$ for a pair. Even if the HK is a 60w/channel 8 ohms, same at 4 Ohms, it was delivering. At that time, I learned that Watts are subjective to each manufacturer...Qualtiy is key, now the amount of watts.

I myself like large format speakers like 4350's or the 4435's at least. I like big amps to.

I was looking at 4312, but can't really compared since it's almost impossible to listen to them prior to buying since they come for sale online not too often...and far away.

What are you after?

JBL sound!( well the one I know at least with the HK paired with L80T)...I listen to a lot of different type of music...From Diana Krall, Pink Floyd, Michael Buble, Classical, Metallica(not often anymore these days but still sometimes...)and a lot of VINYLS...I love the sound of vinyl for whatever reason. Might be in my head, but sitting down and see the LP turning, the needle, the care needed...To me it is an experience each time. Love it.

All the best,
Barry.

Thanks Barry!

[1audiohack]

You are out of my familiarity zone on 4312's.

I am a dinosaur I guess, I still think 4430'a and 1400 Arrays are small speakers, and for me in a room that size even they would need a sub, or two.

I don't know if you do, don't or are in-between on horns but if you are patient and shop, a pair of 4430's would fit the budget.

All the best,
Barry

[audiomagnate]

If you like the 035Ti, and you like your L80t's then why not keep them, or maybe get the crossovers upgraded to the T3 version? L80t's are great. If you want better/more bass, add sub(s). Those 880's look a little cheesey to me. If you want to go modern the new studio series is great if you like the styling. The HK 930 is a nice receiver. People really seem to like the sound of the 730 as well. Welcome to the forum.

[gauger44]

Hello, and welcome. I haven't posted here in quite a while, as I've mainly been using "modern" (Dynaudio, modwright)gear these days. I' ve still got JBL L5’s and L1's around for home theater, but I've owned or heard many others. As for L80t,s, I highly recommend upgrading to the T3 crossover. I owned L100t and they would just kill me after listening for an extended time- very forward and almost shrill. The T 3 upgrade moved everything back into better balance. As for 4312’s, I've owned 4412, which is close. I felt that the 12" woofer was too large for the cabinet, giving it an unfocused bottom end,muddy. I found a pair of 4410's, which were much better. If you like L80t, this was basically the pro version. Same tweeter, better crossover, ability to dial in voicing with the L pads, but still forward sounding, that JBL thing. Good luck and happy holidays!

[SEAWOLF97]

I've owned 4412, which is close. I felt that the 12" woofer was too large for the cabinet, giving it an unfocused bottom end,muddy. I found a pair of 4410's, which were much better.If you like L80t, this was basically the pro version. Same tweeter, better crossover, ability to dial in voicing with the L pads, but still forward sounding, that JBL thing. Good luck and happy holidays!

those are the same points that I have been making for some time now ..

at least on the 4410 you can dial it back a bit , on L80T ..no adjustments.
(and the 035 does need trimming, it's just too much when un-adjusted)

>>giving it an unfocused bottom end,muddy

I've referred to it as "tubby"

[BMWCCA]

those are the same points that I have been making for some time now ..

at least on the 4410 you can dial it back a bit , on L80T ..no adjustments.
(and the 035 does need trimming, it's just too much when un-adjusted)

>>giving it an unfocused bottom end,muddy

I've referred to it as "tubby"

First, the 4312 is really nothing like the 4412 in the bass department. And if the crossover only tamed the tweeter, I'd just use tone controls or EQ. I think it helps integrate all the drivers.

I don't have 4410 but I do have 4412A, L112, L96, and two L80T with T3 crossovers. I prefer the L96 to the L80T/3, hands down but disagree that the 12-inch is always "tubby" in the similar size cabinet. I think they are more sensitive to placement and they need to get at least slightly off the floor, but then these are all "bookshelf" units, or so we've been told. The L112 and 4412A are capable of producing bass with more authority than the 10-inchers and other than that they are all pretty much the same. I'm a fan of the 044 over the 035ti or 052ti (I also have L150As) simply because its design and material smooths out imperfections in recordings and the monitor units are in-your-face on purpose even when tamed. Before the L80T T3 conversion I put a single ply of toilet paper over them and it seemed to work fine!

Just my thoughts on a lazy Sunday. Happy Holidays to you all.

[coachmorin]

I'm keeping the L80T, they are just in a different room now. For the big room, I was looking to try something different. L100T, L96, L112, 120ti, 43xx, 44xx. For the T3 upgrade, I will start to check ''bay'' for new crossover. Will see. I have tried at this time other brand too. BW 683, Wharfedale 6.2, Epos, Rega R5 and Tannoy DC8. They all sound pretty good(Tannoy especially), but there is no bass authority like with older JBL. I feelthere is something missing, the magic that makes your foot tapping...you know.

For the sub, I did tried that in the big room to no avail. It was a Canton AS50C, 12 ''. The only things I have noticed was more vibration. Probably this sub is more for HT then music. Seems way too slow. Anyhow, it did not gives me a better sense of bass in the room.

The room is big with high ceilings, which gives me a lot of echo problems. In that room, the L80T 035ti was a little bit agressive at higher volume. But in the HT setup room, they sound SUPERB. No harshness. They are driven by a Denon 3805.

For the HK, really, I'm not sure what to do. I tried a Cambridge 851A to see if more juice would help. It did yes. But did it improve that much to justify the price ? To me, no.

For now, I'm keeping the HK. I thought the HK had lost it's crispiness with highs...but in fact it is the BW that are so much laid back. I found that out by trying my Canton LE190 A/B, and the mid and crispiness were back. I was surprised how much the BW sound laidback with the HK, compared with the Cambridge.

[coachmorin]

I did bought the Cambridge 840A and was happy for a while.

Last week, I have found a HK PM 665VXI that has been in storage for 15 years, in it's original box, original invoie, paperwork...pristine condition for next to nothing. Dual mono design. After some deoxit cleaning, I powered up the beast....The little BW sounded completely different...

Wo...So I decided to hook the L80T to see what would be the results...WOW. I'm shocked to say the least. Tight bass, lot of punch, no harchness, and so much power. The Cambridge is going back for sale right now. The JBL and the big HK is now in my main living room and they will stay there...I'm blown away. I'm still on the hunt for a nice pair of 43xx or 44xx, L96, L112 or maybe L100T. But now, I'm just enjoying music and my feet are tapping, indeed.

http://www.harmankardon.com/resource...PM665VXIom.pdf