L300 Summit with Nelson Pass crossover mod and First Watt J2 Amp

[Murillo Moreira]

The top and the bottom at least are the same






The 2312 is 293mm and the 2307 216mm. I will ask a friend to build one for me, just in case. He made pieces for the naval industry. He is also an audiophile, his name is Edmundo Barbosa, a very nice guy, but he do not use JBL, his system uses a Wilson Alexandria with 610T Audio Research amps, a dCS SACD and so on.

[Murillo Moreira]

I like 300s rolled off at 50 into a sub swarm.

Sorry but this is the last thing I would do with the L300, a sub bass integration with a speaker is a very hard thing to do, IMHO subs are for movies, not for music. Do you use an active crossover over them?
My experience with multiple subs, Earl Geddes aproach BTW, does not gives me good memories, my room is small, and I used with 4 subs with a dcx2496 plus two speakers diy from troelsgravensen (Jensen w/scan speak), after this I swap to a simpler system with just a B&W 801 matrix, no subs, now I 'm listeng music again, less is more.

[audiomagnate]

Sorry but this is the last thing I would do with the L300, a sub bass integration with a speaker is a very hard thing to do, IMHO subs are for movies, not for music. Do you use an active crossover over them?
My experience with multiple subs, Earl Geddes aproach BTW, does not gives me good memories, my room is small, and I used with 4 subs with a dcx2496 plus two speakers diy from troelsgravensen (Jensen w/scan speak), after this I swap to a simpler system with just a B&W 801 matrix, no subs, now I 'm listeng music again, less is more.

Music goes WAY lower than 300's can put out. And sub integration isn't hard at all, especially these days. The real "secret" is a good sub. If you prefer colored, rolled off bass to extended accurate bass that's fine, but I sure don't. L300s sound better to me with a 50 Hz rolloff even without subs BTW. Stuffing the ports as NP recommends also helps quite a bit. I love the low distortion dynamics those 136a crank out, but not all that nasty box noise. I agree that 801s don't really need a sub, but that has absolutely nothing to do with L300s.

[SEAWOLF97]

Music goes WAY lower than 300's can put out.

hmmm . tech sheets show FR of 32hz-20khz . What music do you think is WAY lower

if you are counting movie LFE's , it's hard to call that music.

the VERY lowest music freq that I can locate is: a concert piano is capable of 27.5 hz

Does MAYBE 4.5 hz lower on a certain piano constitute WAY lower ?

http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

[toddalin]

Low "C" on a 32' organ pipe is 16 Hz, and there is a whole octave up to 32 Hz.

I would agree that a good sub does help L300s fill in the bottom end. And while L300s may be rated down to 32 Hz, where do you even see this listed and at what dB reduction?

[SEAWOLF97]

I would agree that a good sub does help L300s fill in the bottom end. And while L300s may be rated down to 32 Hz, where do you even see this listed and at what dB reduction?

sub helps my 250ti's too, but really isn't needed, just desired.

check JBL's sheets for specs.

>>Low "C" on a 32' organ pipe is 16 Hz

and you listen to that ..how often ? is that music or just some specialized tone that you can only feel ?

[Murillo Moreira]

Music goes WAY lower than 300's can put out. And sub integration isn't hard at all, especially these days. The real "secret" is a good sub. If you prefer colored, rolled off bass to extended accurate bass that's fine, but I sure don't. L300s sound better to me with a 50 Hz rolloff even without subs BTW. Stuffing the ports as NP recommends also helps quite a bit. I love the low distortion dynamics those 136a crank out, but not all that nasty box noise. I agree that 801s don't really need a sub, but that has absolutely nothing to do with L300s.

Maybe you are right about not using a quality sub, but I tested some SVS, Sunfire and Velodyne and none of them really got me, what you use?

Yes, B&W 801 are a different animal.

[Murillo Moreira]

Surfing at the web I found these beautiful and nostalgic texts about the JBL history, maybe is in our library, but I would like to share...

JBL - Inside the Studio Monitor (1976).pdf

The other one is very intersting, "JBL - The History and Legacy of JBL (2006)" by Don McRitchie and Steve Schell. a 81 page article.
http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL%20-%2...%282006%29.pdf

Also a JBL paper about cinema installation.

http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL%20-%2...stallation.pdf


They are from a Croatian website, I do not know if they are copyright protected, so please advise me if I have to remove them.

Good lecture to all you my JBL friends. God bless our brothers from France, they don't deserve these stupid terrorists acts, no one does.

[Murillo Moreira]

sub helps my 250ti's too, but really isn't needed, just desired.

check JBL's sheets for specs.

>>Low "C" on a 32' organ pipe is 16 Hz

and you listen to that ..how often ? is that music or just some specialized tone that you can only feel ?

This is a long discussion, to sub or not to sub, that's the question...
It's one of these endless themes like tubes vs solid or analog vs digital, audio for music vs audio for movies... BTW, IMHO real audio goes only with Tubes, Analog, 2.0, but no subs, and of course a nice pair of JBL

[ivica]

Surfing at the web I found these beautiful and nostalgic texts about the JBL history, maybe is in our library, but I would like to share...


The other one is very intersting, "JBL - The History and Legacy of JBL (2006)" by Don McRitchie and Steve Schell. a 81 page article.
http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL - The...JBL (2006).pdf

Also a JBL paper about cinema installation.

http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL - Motion Picture Loudspeaker Systems - A Guide to Proper Selection and Installation.pdf


They are from a Croatian website, I do not know if they are copyright protected, so please advise me if I have to remove them.

Good lecture to all you my JBL friends. God bless our brothers from France, they don't deserve these stupid terrorists acts, no one does.

Hi Murillo Moreira,

Many thanks for the info You have shown us, but I want to remind You that the mentioned web site :http://www.diyaudio.rs
IS NOT CROATIAN, as You think , ( see: .RS not . HR ) but it is SERBIAN. May be, from your point of geography is the same, as someone can say that Brazil is almost the same as Argentina, but in reality it is not.

Regards
Ivica

[ivica]

Low "C" on a 32' organ pipe is 16 Hz, and there is a whole octave up to 32 Hz.

I would agree that a good sub does help L300s fill in the bottom end. And while L300s may be rated down to 32 Hz, where do you even see this listed and at what dB reduction?

Hi toddalin,

Can You suggest me ANY audio MUSICAL recording ( LP or CD) where mentioned "C" has been recorded.

regards
ivica

[hjames]

Low "C" on a 32' organ pipe is 16 Hz, and there is a whole octave up to 32 Hz.

I would agree that a good sub does help L300s fill in the bottom end. And while L300s may be rated down to 32 Hz, where do you even see this listed and at what dB reduction?

Hi toddalin,
Can You suggest me ANY audio MUSICAL recording ( LP or CD) where mentioned "C" has been recorded.
regards
ivica

I believe the "Pipes Rhode island" CD has that C ....

check out the track 10 - "Master Tallis's Testament", performed on the organ at S. Stephen's Church in Providence

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/...lbum_id=175111

There are some great low moments on that CD ...

I recall reading about it in the Stereopile - perhaps referenced in an equipment review, but I can't find that review right now.
(Google says that in the February 2008 issue of Stereophile magazine there is a review by Larry Greenhill).


Also - see this thread -
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...tz-organ-music

[Murillo Moreira]

Hi Murillo Moreira,

Many thanks for the info You have shown us, but I want to remind You that the mentioned web site :http://www.diyaudio.rs
IS NOT CROATIAN, as You think , ( see: .RS not . HR ) but it is SERBIAN. May be, from your point of geography is the same, as someone can say that Brazil is almost the same as Argentina, but in reality it is not.

Regards
Ivica

Dear Ivica, my apologize and sorry for this terrible mistake. Yes Serbia is a incredible nation, also as Croatia, I wanna travel there someday to know these wonderful places. Also the most beautiful women are from there, hope you got one.

[Murillo Moreira]

Hi toddalin,

Can You suggest me ANY audio MUSICAL recording ( LP or CD) where mentioned "C" has been recorded.

regards
ivica

Ivica, I've got that from a fellow at audioholics, the list is superb... If you look at rutraker.ru you may get the torrents. Send me a PM and I can give the torrents for you.


Recommended CDs:
Bass Outlaws: Illegal Bass [Newtown NTN2210]. Track 12 features ultra-loud bass in the low to sub 20Hz range.
Enya: Watermark [Geffen 242332-3]. Track 10, "The Longships," features bass from 20Hz to the low 30s.
Hindemith: Organ Works [Argo 417 159-2]. Track 5 at 4:45 features a 19Hz note that is 6dB louder than the highest level anywhere else on the disc.
Mendelssohn: Organ Works [Argo 414 420-2]. Extremely loud 19Hz tones on track 8 -- proceed with caution!
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition [Dorian DOR 90117]. Tracks 5 and 15 feature the best bass.
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky [London 410 164-2]. 25Hz bass from the lowest-tuned conventionally-sized bass drum.
Reference Recordings HDCD Sampler[RR-S3CD]. Tracks 1 and 3 feature tight and gut-shaking drum strokes without overhang.
Respighi: Pines of Rome [London 410 145-2]. Track 4 at 1:22 and 2:29 features a pure 22Hz tone.
Saint-Saens: Organ Symphony [Philips 412 619-2]. Nine minutes into track 2 features deep bass down to16Hz.
Star Tracks II [Telarc CD80146]. Track 2 features extremely deep bass about one minute into the track.
Thom Rotella Band [DMP CD-650]. One minute into track 12 features a bass guitar solo that illustrates superb bass transients.
Jennifer Warnes: The Hunter [Private Music 01005-82089-2]. Tracks 8 and 9 feature loud, tight mid to low bass.
The Ruffatti Organ in Davis Symphony Hall [Telarc CD80097]. Tracks 1 and 11 feature sub-20Hz bass.

[hjames]

Don't forget Boz Scaggs - Dig - the whole album features extremely low undertones -
http://smile.amazon.com/Dig-Boz-Scaggs/dp/B000NQQ4QK/
Harman used track 10, "Thanks to You" for one of the tracks in their Demo trailer when they brought it to Tyson's Corner VA a few years back.

Ivica, I've got that from a fellow at audioholics, the list is superb... If you look at rutraker.ru you may get the torrents. Send me a PM and I can give the torrents for you.


Recommended CDs:
Bass Outlaws: Illegal Bass [Newtown NTN2210]. Track 12 features ultra-loud bass in the low to sub 20Hz range.
Enya: Watermark [Geffen 242332-3]. Track 10, "The Longships," features bass from 20Hz to the low 30s.
Hindemith: Organ Works [Argo 417 159-2]. Track 5 at 4:45 features a 19Hz note that is 6dB louder than the highest level anywhere else on the disc.
Mendelssohn: Organ Works [Argo 414 420-2]. Extremely loud 19Hz tones on track 8 -- proceed with caution!
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition [Dorian DOR 90117]. Tracks 5 and 15 feature the best bass.
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky [London 410 164-2]. 25Hz bass from the lowest-tuned conventionally-sized bass drum.
Reference Recordings HDCD Sampler[RR-S3CD]. Tracks 1 and 3 feature tight and gut-shaking drum strokes without overhang.
Respighi: Pines of Rome [London 410 145-2]. Track 4 at 1:22 and 2:29 features a pure 22Hz tone.
Saint-Saens: Organ Symphony [Philips 412 619-2]. Nine minutes into track 2 features deep bass down to16Hz.
Star Tracks II [Telarc CD80146]. Track 2 features extremely deep bass about one minute into the track.
Thom Rotella Band [DMP CD-650]. One minute into track 12 features a bass guitar solo that illustrates superb bass transients.
Jennifer Warnes: The Hunter [Private Music 01005-82089-2]. Tracks 8 and 9 feature loud, tight mid to low bass.
The Ruffatti Organ in Davis Symphony Hall [Telarc CD80097]. Tracks 1 and 11 feature sub-20Hz bass.