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Thread: my 4343B upgrade

  1. #1
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    my 4343B upgrade

    Hi,

    it is my first post here. Hello to everybody.
    I live in Poland (sorry for my horrible English), bought 4343B a few months ago and I in love with them.
    A while I used them in standard mode, after that in biamping mode with external crossover. Later I've decided to make a combination between active and passive crossover. Passive only for HF/UHF and 3-way external crossover.
    I've tried three of them: digital dbx480 and two analog: JBL M553 and dbx234L. Final decision to buy analog and tube crossover. Not so easy task.
    I was lucky and found Audio Research EC-4. After a big upgrade it got new resistors, new caps and new 12AX7 silver plates Marconi tubes.
    Next week I'm going to listen how does it sound.
    Before that I started speakers reassembling. I threw out the original 3143 crossover and L-Pads from cabinet. Instead of L-pads I'll use resistors. I prepared a new terminals plate and connected them direct to the speakers.
    Here you can see the pictures (starting from #777): http://hdtvpolska.com/topic/32905-mu...w-2014/page-39
    I'm going to build a new external passive crossover for HF/UHF based on new coils, Duelund caps and PathAudio and Mundorf resistors.

    Of course I need three amps. For lows I use JBL/UREI 6260. For mids I'm going to use Dynaco Stereo 35 after upgrade and for HF/UHF Heathkit UA-2 after upgrade. Preamp is Audio Research LS16 after big upgrade.

    I'll let you know how it sounds.

    Regards.

    pmcomp

  2. #2
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    Nice thread you have. I can not read it, but many fine images.
    Why not go 4 way active?

    You can find a lot of info here;
    4343 References Thread
    Thanks "hjames"
    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030) 305P MkII

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Nice thread you have. I can not read it, but many fine images.
    Why not go 4 way active?
    Impossible to find 4-way tube crossover .

    Maybe on my site you've found Tandberg speakers. On the same site but a few posts earlier. I own them two weeks and they are amazing. They've got something what 4343 misses ... sound colour with full of music. The speakers with the soul.
    I'll try to find THIS in 4343. Jensen caps in crossover and warm tubes, maybe Mullards. Duelunds with graphitte resistors should help to. Will see.

    Regards.

    pmcomp

  4. #4
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcomp View Post
    Impossible to find 4-way tube crossover .

    Maybe on my site you've found Tandberg speakers. On the same site but a few posts earlier. I own them two weeks and they are amazing. They've got something what 4343 misses ... sound color with full of music. The speakers with the soul.
    I'll try to find THIS in 4343. Jensen caps in crossover and warm tubes, maybe Mullards. Duelunds with graphitte resistors should help to. Will see.

    Regards.

    pmcomp
    Hi pmcomp,
    Looking at the figure you have presented, I want to suggest you first to check are the used driver are JBL original cones and diaphragms incorporated to the drivers, an example JBL 2121 original looks different then on your figures.
    On the image:
    http://imageshack.com/i/hl87DfIqj
    seems to me that something is done with the 'spider', but the color is much like JBL

    The same can be said for 2231h dust cup. The color of the 2231 suspension does not seems to remind me of the original , either to C8r2235 recone kit. I want to say if JBL sound want to be get original driver have to be used.

    Second, I am sure that 4343 sound character would be always different then Tandberg 5020 speakers, as they used different technology driver type (compression horn drivers vs dome type in Tandberg).

    If you prefer tube sound I think that tube amps would be enough, and you can use semiconductor based active crossover, but may be some forum members can help to make DIY active tube crossover too.

    regards
    ivica

  5. #5
    Senior Member martin2395's Avatar
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    If there is no white marking saying "2235H" at the back on of the cone, then it's fake.
    In that case I wouldn't even bother with luxurious crossovers but first make sure that the speakers ale all up to spec, 2121 with 'normal' dustcap may give very different results.
    I don't want to sound so negative but the cone on your midwoofer may be a bunch of different pieces glued together - either the cone and the dustcap and also the suspenson don't look like 2121 at all.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Field Guide to the JBL 10 inch Midbass driver 2121 2122 2123

    Chart for the relevant 10 inch mid-Bass drivers ...
    (pix and inventory courtesy of your friendly neighborhood SubWoof!)

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post171651
    2ch: Oppo, Acurus RL-11, JBL 240ti, Heath AS101, Carver TFM-25,Von Schweikert VR4
    7: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460,

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello pmcomp

    Not all recones have the cone kit written in white on the cone. I have a pair of 2231H's with 2235 cones with no writing on the cones. If you are concerned just measure the Fs of the driver. The after market kits do not have the mass ring so Fs will be high. As far as the 2121 one of the last batchs had issues with the fit of the dust cover. Cone color doesn't mean anything unless you are talking aquaplas. Between fading cones, multiple cone runs and different cone manufacurers I wouldn't worry about it. I have 4344's and think they are great happy to see you enjoying them.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #9
    Senior Member martin2395's Avatar
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    Rob, take another look at pmcomp's 2121 - it doesn't have the inverted dustcap and there is a strange line on the outer side of the cone also someone changed the description and added the "H" later.

    We can't tell anything more without measurements.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wpod's Avatar
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    Hope that you were joking when you said that you threw out the 3143 crossover....

    someone on eBay would pay you a few dollars for them, I'm sure . Sounds to me like you are going about this correctly, I really like your choice of Audio components (Dynaco Stereo 35 and Heathkit UA-2) as well as your tweeks (Dueland caps and Mundorf resistors). For crossover resistors, I like to use the Mills MRA-12 non-inductive wirewounds as they are dead quiet and super reliable. If you really want a good tube crossover, check out a Marchand XM-126, it's all analogue, three or four way (12AX7 tubes ), and seperate power supply. They don't come up too often on the used market because most people keep them. http://www.marchandelec.com/xm126.html In any case, good luck with your 4343Bs, I've been loving mine for over 7 years!.Paul, Providence, RI
    JBL 4343, JBL L300 Summit, UREI 811, JBL 4311, JBL 4301, JBL L5, JBL L50, JBL L100 , to name a few

  11. #11
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    Hi,

    nothing new in my project. I was waiting for delivery Mundorf resistors. I've already collected all the parts needed to pasive HF/UHF crossover means coils (made in Polish company Polink which makes coils fi. for Jantzen Audio), caps (Duelund) and resistors (Mundorf M-Resist Supreme for parallel connection and "home made" graphite resistors for serial connection similar to PathAudio:

    Name:  ISKCvC.jpg
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    There is a HF/UHF scheme, without L-Pads changed for resistors. All resistors are 20W:

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    Next week I should build them and put into two external cases.
    My Audio Research EC-4 is after upgrade, I have to check it tomorrow.

    The issue with my mid speakers. They are as they are. I'm not going to change them. They play and I believe play good .

    Regards.

    PS. this scheme bellow as attached image is wrong. Next to 1,5uF schould be 4 Ohm instead of 4,4 Ohm. I don't know how to delete it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #12
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    Hi,

    I finished my new passive crossovers for UHF/HF:



    More nacked pictures on my blog: http://hdtvpolska.com/topic/32905-mu...-cyfra/page-41.

    I could connect everything toogether.

    With my active tube crossover as well:




    How does it sound ???
    I dont know . It has to warm up about 100-200 hours because inside passive and active crossover and two tube ampifiers are new components: caps, resistors, coils and NOS tubes. Tomorrow with my friend, the musician who knows my system well from the past, we are going to set the levels of three parts of frequencies. We are going to try other crossover: dbX480, dbx234 and JBL M553 and compare them to this tube AR EC-4.

    I'll let you know.

    regards.

    pmcomp
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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