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Thread: What is "Real"?

  1. #61
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    When all of the gear is performing to it's utmost potential, it's real. All you have to do is fill in the blanks. But you can't if the cues aren't there. If they are, then everything is happening as it should, just to a smaller scale. When my TT is right dead on, I can envision a tiny band playing right there in the groove. In the amp I listen to day in and day out, I can easily hear a 2mv improvement in offset. The 'hobby' part of my interest is purely technical. When that part I have control of is satisfied, musical enjoyment begins regardless of the shortcomings of the source material. Otherwise, where's the fun? Having said that, recordings are neatly arranged according to quality in my memory.

  2. #62
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    BIG

    What is "Real"? answer "Big"...2 20ft x 6ft wing pnls w/2pr A7's popping thru @mid ctr pt. f&r
    Advantages..elimination: step baffle....200hz dip phase. diffraction &comb fltr,, smear...
    harsh..small sound ..image loss ... auditory deception and hair pulling...eq & rev would help

  3. #63
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    Colleagues

    I found some plots on the parts express site and attempted to upload them with no success. (I'll have to get my grandson to help me). Two of the plots were the B&W 805D, and the Wilson Sophia. Neither were close to being flat. I do not knowwho generated them, although I suspect they came from Stereophile. Also included was the Revel Salon 2 which was much more accurate. (flat) In our quest for realism, shouldn't the speaker mfr strive to flatten the curve? I was surprised by the non linear curve from the B&W given their reputation, and the pictures I've seen their use at Abby Road. I think I'll keep my 4410's and save up for 3 6332's, as the M2's are out of range.

    Ed
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  4. #64
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    Oh there they are. The 805 is on your left.
    Last edited by Ed Kreamer; 12-12-2014 at 08:39 PM. Reason: clarity
    KEEP ON LISTENING!

  5. #65
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    Anyone who claims to have invented a loud speaker system that accurately reproduces a philharmonic orchestra, or a church pipe organ, probably has an ample supply of snake oil for sale also for the suckers who believe it. For example, I have heard a pair of Avalon Acoustics Sentinal speakers powered by Mac model 9's, and for $92,000 one would think those speakers would provide just a hint of the tactile feel one gets from listening to a large live string section, or horn section.

    I have had conversations with associates who tell me this speaker or that sounds like the real thing. I usually shut them up with one question when I get them to admit they have never heard a live orchestra. I have yet to listen to a speaker system that can reproduce the chills I get from hearing a twelve piece horn section. It's all about exciting the air in the entire room, not just the sweet spot.

  6. #66
    Senior Member gferrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post
    Anyone who claims to have invented a loud speaker system that accurately reproduces a philharmonic orchestra, or a church pipe organ, probably has an ample supply of snake oil for sale also for the suckers who believe it. For example, I have heard a pair of Avalon Acoustics Sentinal speakers powered by Mac model 9's, and for $92,000 one would think those speakers would provide just a hint of the tactile feel one gets from listening to a large live string section, or horn section.

    I have had conversations with associates who tell me this speaker or that sounds like the real thing. I usually shut them up with one question when I get them to admit they have never heard a live orchestra. I have yet to listen to a speaker system that can reproduce the chills I get from hearing a twelve piece horn section. It's all about exciting the air in the entire room, not just the sweet spot.
    I agree, you can only make your listening room sound good!
    XPL 200's w DX1, XPL 160's, XPL 140's, L7's, L5's, L3's, L1's Homemade L Center, 4412's, 4406, L60T's, L20T's

  7. #67
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    Orchestra EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Horn Fanatic View Post
    Anyone who claims to have invented a loud speaker system that accurately reproduces a philharmonic orchestra, or a church pipe organ, probably has an ample supply of snake oil for sale also for the suckers who believe it. For example, I have heard a pair of Avalon Acoustics Sentinal speakers powered by Mac model 9's, and for $92,000 one would think those speakers would provide just a hint of the tactile feel one gets from listening to a large live string section, or horn section.

    I have had conversations with associates who tell me this speaker or that sounds like the real thing. I usually shut them up with one question when I get them to admit they have never heard a live orchestra. I have yet to listen to a speaker system that can reproduce the chills I get from hearing a twelve piece horn section. It's all about exciting the air in the entire room, not just the sweet spot.

    Speaking of Orchestra's ..Did you know that Phil Spectors' "Wall of Sound"... put ea musician in a cubical
    w/their own mic and added reverb to the final mix....

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gferrell View Post
    I agree, you can only make your listening room sound good!
    Bingo! And that is something of an art in itself . . . and not necessarily requiring ultra expensive hardware. More a matter of synergy of equipment with the environment. I don't envy Greg Timbers because he never knows who or where his creations are going to be deployed. May sound good or not so good. I guess this is where the digital fitting / equalization is an advantage. But, the whole exercise gets crazy - like a drug. Just "make your listening room sound good." No magic.

  9. #69
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    Colleagues,

    I agree with pretty much what has been sad. Audio perfection does not exist, but some seem to get closer than others. I will never get to 10th row center at Benaroa unless I am at 10th row center Benroya. I do find it tiresome however, that we hear in audio salons that only certain brands are "musical" ( what the hell does that mean anyway?) and that JBL ( my choice) just means Big and Loud. I seem to have strayed from my brief. Again.

    Is the quest for objective reality worth pursing or is it subjective and only in the ear of the beholder and accuracy be damned?
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  10. #70
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    Heck yes! Keep it technical whether they like it or not. Damn the torpedoes!!

  11. #71
    Senior Member hsosdrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Colleagues,

    Is the quest for objective reality worth pursing or is it subjective and only in the ear of the beholder and accuracy be damned?
    There is no such thing as "objective reality" when it comes to sound reproduction, because sound only exists within the listener's brain. The very best we can ever achieve is to create an illusion that succeeds in fooling our brain into believing that what it's perceiving is being created in that moment by real, flesh-and-blood musicians. And since the illusion that will fool one person will likely be different than the illusion that will fool another person, the notion that there could ever be a single sound reproduction system that would create the perfect illusion for each and every listener is an impossiblity. The best any of us can ever hope to achieve is to assemble a system that is ideal for themselves. And once having done so, don't expect it to work the same for anyone else.

  12. #72
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    Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by hsosdrum View Post
    There is no such thing as "objective reality" when it comes to sound reproduction, because sound only exists within the listener's brain. The very best we can ever achieve is to create an illusion that succeeds in fooling our brain into believing that what it's perceiving is being created in that moment by real, flesh-and-blood musicians. And since the illusion that will fool one person will likely be different than the illusion that will fool another person, the notion that there could ever be a single sound reproduction system that would create the perfect illusion for each and every listener is an impossiblity. The best any of us can ever hope to achieve is to assemble a system that is ideal for themselves. And once having done so, don't expect it to work the same for anyone else.
    The only disagreeing I've noted is between He and She

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer View Post
    Colleagues,

    I agree with pretty much what has been sad. Audio perfection does not exist, but some seem to get closer than others. I will never get to 10th row center at Benaroa unless I am at 10th row center Benroya. I do find it tiresome however, that we hear in audio salons that only certain brands are "musical" ( what the hell does that mean anyway?) and that JBL ( my choice) just means Big and Loud. I seem to have strayed from my brief. Again.

    Is the quest for objective reality worth pursing or is it subjective and only in the ear of the beholder and accuracy be damned?
    I can tell you what's... not... "musical"
    Some sp. are not plug-and-play fresh out the box
    They need Eq'g and unfortunately most don't bother...

    As for "big" ...the bigger the baffle the bigger the sound...

  14. #74
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    Weeds look like, um weeds

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