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Thread: Voltiaudio

  1. #46
    Maron Horonzakz
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    Did it resonate the metal plate in your head....?? Most of Bose Labrinth design came frome Stromberg Carlson design of 1939 As well as AMPEX direct/reflective design speakers

  2. #47
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    Quality Assurance does make a company a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Thank you for that and for your contributions to my thread

    The one and only guy so far that actually came close to pulling the trigger on a pair of these things

    As for your fit 'n' finish complaint? I concur 100%

    My wife bought a cheap assemble it yourself chair from Target or the like made in china of course.
    It's price was a little under $200
    The overall quality and comfort is fairly decent, but in order to assemble it, it was a good thing that I just happened to have on hand a metric tap and die set as well as numerous other hand tools. The screws they provided in the "kit" were also too short in a couple of instances to properly secure the seat bottom slat as well as a few other bits
    This chair was marketed and sold as an item which the purchaser could easily assemble with the hexagonal wrench provided in minutes.

    Yeah, right

    The major problem with it was, yep you guessed it, threaded inserts made on shit tooling, probably not calibrated since we shipped it over there 25 years ago and made of cheap steel.
    Like most of the hardware one finds even in brand name hardware stores today
    Sourcing really high grade high quality machine screws EASILY today? Forget it!
    But you can get them if you need them

    From the 3rd world I don't complain and have come to expect it and deal with it. After all it's only a cheap shit comfy chair for doing her nails and watching TV

    But in the case of your speakers? Unacceptable. Use quality hardware, fitted before shipping, no problems, period.

    So many people today (Americans especially) have been so brain washed into just simply accepting crap (all manner and brand of crap and mediocrity) based on bumper sticker philosophies and catch phrases like "shit happens" "life's too short" or my favorite, "that's a first world problem" that it makes me want to puke

    I am a BIG fan of Western Civilization, The Industrial Revolution and most of all QUALITY, the way it used to and was expected to be, when dealing with luxury goods most especially

    Hell, most things for that matter. It all starts small and pretty soon you wind up with nothing but crap

    A great many people worked and fought VERY hard to get us where we are, I can't just fob it off so flippantly

    Unfortunately, most of the herds today reject my position of "hold their feet to the fire" but maybe, just maybe if they embraced it the quality of manufactured goods in general would improve

    RCA's Dynaflex debacle helps make my point; after enough returns they finally knocked it off with THAT crap
    Guy who ran my boyhood town's little record shop didn't mind taking them back. His philosophy was the same as mine. Not just picking on Dynaflex. Anyone alive and buying records during the late '60s well into the '70s remembers well the generally piss poor condition of the record pressing business. The oil crisis etc etc etc.
    My guy said bring 'em back!
    If people just accepted this crap as just "the way it is", regardless of the justifications, rationalizations or even virtues cited, then pretty soon it'd be all you'd get is what he'd say. He was right then and he's right now.

    I've got dozens more and I am quite certain everyone here has their own "made in china", or similar, cheap crap horror stories. But as John and those bumper stickers proclaim, "it is what it is"

    Soon it will be all there is "all crap, all the time"

    But not when you're paying real coin for a product, any product, which touts it's historical QUALITY as well as performance

    And now I'm Mr. Off Topic!
    Agreed, Time and again I read about or experience smaller speaker companies that go to great lengths explain and show how they make, test and match individual pairs of speakers. They are the manufacturers who take enormous pride in their creations as well, but they go all the way in ensuring that each pair that leave the premises are perfect. Those are the companies that succeed in the long term, regardless if they use compound x or whatever, the transparency and accountability makes them a viable option for those of us who can afford their products. Hell, even look at Kenrick Sound in Japan. They rebuild classic JBL stuff and take great pains to show the process involved, and the results they finish with. Oh boy, they do a great job! and their speakers aren't cheap. However they sell them quicker than candy at a kids party. The Volti issue is sad, I adore the look of them, however looks alone are only a small part of the equation. Now judging by the responses to you, may I suggest you now let it go, it's not worth the hassle. Time will tell if they are a success, and in my opinion it takes a foolhardy person to spend that amount of cash without any serious understanding of what they are buying. Proprietary issues aside, any maker worth his salt WILL AND DOES test thoroughly. Take Care.

  3. #48
    Maron Horonzakz
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    So what is it your trying to say ???????

  4. #49
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    So what is it your trying to say ???????
    Its about the Glory of American Industry and doing the right thing for the buyers -
    How some have lost their way, and sod off to all who are doubters or have lesser visions ...

    ... with liberty and justice for all ... Amen.

    I got yardwork to do -
    have a great Sunday, Y'all...


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  5. #50
    Maron Horonzakz
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    That's the way to go SuperGirl.....Over three million voicecoils were made in China last year,,, What speaker manufactures picked them up to build their speakers ?????

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    That's the way to go SuperGirl.....Over three million voicecoils were made in China last year,,, What speaker manufactures picked them up to build their speakers ?????

    I'd be willing to bet the number is probably more like a 100x that, or even greater, but
    you can start the search to find your answer here:

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...il+parts+aliba

    http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchTex t=speaker+voice+coil+formers


    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/speakers-made-in-china.html


    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/bluetooth-speaker.html

    http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...heap++speakers

    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/voice-coil.html

    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/speaker-voice-coil.html

    You can even buy your own machine and maybe go into business with Greg!:
    http://www.alibaba.com/speaker-voice...facturers.html

    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/voice-coil-wire.html


    Have fun, search function works just like ePay

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepjk01 View Post
    Sorry to hear Gregg was so standoffish. He started on the klipsch forums as a diyer and did veneer work on the side. From there he was helped by a few people to design a tractrix horn for a 2inch compression driver that could replace the stock k400 in the klipsch reference series. ALK engineering helped him with his crossover design. All his designs are based on upgraded klipsch heritage speakers. I owned a pair of his tractrix horns and his fit and finish are top quality. He never provided any measurements so I did it myself as I have all the equipment. He was always nice to deal. As far as drives last I new he was using a BMS 4592 for the mid and a eminence woofer similar to crites CW. He needs to invest in some measurement gear especially with building his own $15000 speakers.
    My apologies for taking so long to acknowledge and say "thank you" for this very pertinent and informative response to my inquiry.

    Was caught up in the jibber-jabber.

    Thank you for taking the time to respond,
    Thomas

  8. #53
    Maron Horonzakz
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    Yes China is the largest supplier of voice coils, world wide,,,

  9. #54
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    Unhappy Moron, Grow Up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    Yes China is the largest supplier of voice coils, world wide,,,
    Maron, Stop being such a dickhead! You have a different opinion, SO WHAT! Stop trying to be inflammatory, you come across as a child who must get his own way. Find something productive to do with yourself, maybe use your skills and start a speaker manufacturing business. Too many people like you exist on Audio Forums who seem to like to have lengthy passionate debate's about very informal topics. This place is a friendly site for people with a shared love of JBL, any comments on issues are the views of the writers, not invitations to be proven right or wrong. It seems obvious though that JBL have disregarded their heritage and the loyalty of it's customers by becoming a manufacturer who now has production offshore. Very few, if any, quality speaker makers DO NOT make their own products in house. It makes JBL one of the lower tier manufacturers who have the dubious honor of being not much better than some Chinese product. Who knows, before too long they will save money by having all their R&D done in China as well. Poor old Mr JBL would be rolling over in his grave if he knew where the company has gone!

  10. #55
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieSteve View Post
    Maron, Stop being such a dickhead! You have a different opinion, SO WHAT! Stop trying to be inflammatory, you come across as a child who must get his own way. Find something productive to do with yourself, maybe use your skills and start a speaker manufacturing business. Too many people like you exist on Audio Forums who seem to like to have lengthy passionate debate's about very informal topics. This place is a friendly site for people with a shared love of JBL, any comments on issues are the views of the writers, not invitations to be proven right or wrong. It seems obvious though that JBL have disregarded their heritage and the loyalty of it's customers by becoming a manufacturer who now has production offshore. Very few, if any, quality speaker makers DO NOT make their own products in house. It makes JBL one of the lower tier manufacturers who have the dubious honor of being not much better than some Chinese product. Who knows, before too long they will save money by having all their R&D done in China as well. Poor old Mr JBL would be rolling over in his grave if he knew where the company has gone!
    well, I can agree with some of that , BUT

    how 'bout hitting "CR/ENTER" every now and then to break up the text blob so
    I can be sure of what you are saying ?
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Hello,
    I just recently wrote this fellow, Greg Roberts and asked him a few simple questions regarding his driver selections and specs of his systems as it would pertain to planning good amplification matching.

    His response let us say was a bit less than forthcoming.
    I first heard of this guy because of the restoration work, fancy cabinets, veneer jobs and box modifications which he was doing for and on Klipsch products. Seemed interesting and his work looked good as far as I could tell from photographs.

    I initially was going to discuss some custom work on a pair of JBL boxes with the man.

    Now it would appear he is no longer doing that as his loudspeakers have become quite trendy in certain circles and he appears and claims to be doing well enough to require devoting all of his time and efforts to that endeavor. More power to him and congratulations.

    Still, it bothers me that any speaker manufacturer would be reluctant to at least provide the most basic of technical details regarding his systems. And as much as the quality of his wood work he really really really sells the fact that his systems are 100% Made in U.S.A. so that claim really piqued my curiosity as to who's drivers he was using or was this guy by wild ass chance actually building his own here in the U.S.A.!? At his asking prices I thought it might be possible, maybe.

    I also pointed out that I consider this essential information also as to the what when and how to obtain service parts if he were NOT to survive forever (like diaphragms and the like)

    Could anyone here shed any light on these designs?

    His main emphasis on his website is the high quality of fit and finish, his heirloom quality boxes and the fact that he makes certain every piece of grille cloth is attched perfectly square.

    I will be the first to admit that I too apprecaiate those things but I'd be even more interested in what's actually inside the boxes.

    It's not as if one could not be opened and the big secret revealed.

    My email to Greg Roberts:

    Hello,
    Please tell me if your would; what "brand" of transducers do you employ in your beautiful designs?
    Please advise.
    Thank you for your time and consideration

    His reply:

    Hi,
    I'm sorry but I don't disclose what brand or model of drivers I use. I cantell you that the tweeter uses a 1" compression driver, the mid a 2" outletcompression driver with a 3.5" diaphragm, and the woofer is a high-power,pro-audio 15" driver. Why do you ask?
    Regards,Greg Roberts
    www.voltiaudio.com

    My response:

    Hello Greg Roberts,
    Well, I am sorry to hear that but not surprised.
    As you are unwilling to reveal your "proprietary" off the shelf selections (I suspect) when it comes to driver selections then what does it matter "why" I ask.
    But suffice it to say, in my opinion, anyone (purchaser) serious and knowledgeable in system matching and amplifier building and modifications (tubes) would certainly find this information useful.
    I certainly hope you can understand that. Many of your boxes have been "opened up" and commented upon at various (many) "places" on the internet. I take much of this sort of palaver with a pound of salt.
    I simply wanted to confirm, from the "horses mouth" as it were, the accuracy and the facts, rather than deal in second hand information and speculation. I could also find no technical data sheets on your web site, only glowing hyperbole and "glamour" shots. It may all very well be true, and well deserved (I have read nothing to cast doubt) BUT it is a brand of information of little use to an amp builder.
    And again, when you ask me "why do I ask" I almost feel as if you are pulling my leg.
    My age and current health prohibit me from a whole lot of system building at this point in Life; I found yours intriguing and their obvious beauty and attention to detail (fit and finish) make in them a viable candidate for me as I too find that element of system building important.
    But there is more to it than perfectly attached grille cloth or exotic veneers (as you well know) and though nice, very nice indeed, I am still at a point in my audio endeavors to need a bit more information than that.
    Sorry to hear you are unwilling or unable to help. I will learn what I seek from other sources.
    I also find it difficult to be sitting here even justifying my most reasonable and practical inquiry!
    Here's wishing you and your business well!
    Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Greg's response:

    Hi,
    I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with my decision to keep thisinformation private. I have my reasons. It does matter why anyone asks me about the drivers. Many people wish tobuild their own speakers, and would like to use the same drivers that I amusing and then claim they have made a Volti speaker. That's obviously notsomething I have any control over. But I do have control over whatinformation I choose to give out about my speakers. Regarding the technical specifications of my speakers, or the technicalspecs on the drivers for that matter, I am the first to admit that I am notmuch of a technician when it comes to designing and building speakers. Ionly put a small amount of importance on such things. I am more of anartist, and I use my ears to judge what I hear, and I take action based onwhat I hear. I fully understand that for some people that is not how theywish to buy audio products. There are those who focus on the technicalspecifications, and that's fine. They simply are not my customers, and Iaccept that. People buy audio equipment for many different reasons, and they usedifferent criteria for determining what they wish to own. Volti Audio hastheir customers and YG Acoustics, Raidho, JBL, etc... all have theircustomers. It's all good.
    Regards, Greg Roberts
    www.voltiaudio.com

    Is this guy just full of shit or is it me?
    There were a few more exchanges but I'll spare you the rest.
    Suffice it to say it got a little "testy".
    Speakers he's asking over $15K for and he won't tell me what's in them?
    Kind of blows my mind. But what do I know?
    I reminded him of long gone trendy builders of audio like Audio Alchemy, California Audio etc.........didn't seem to phase him (my, and I would think anyone's, concern with future parts and or service needs.)
    What the heck's up with this guy. But most importantly, can anyone please shed any light on what he's running in these boxes?
    Just new and improved variations on Klipsch designs? I'd love to know.

    Thank you!
    I don't see the relationship between asking questions and the price point or if its mutli national or one man show.

    The fact to decline your request has annoyed you.

    But your questions may have been better asked.

    What is the relevance of the drivers in determining of you like the system or if it will suit your amps?

    Your question is a leading question in that context. Perhaps you are fishing for details of the design?

    As he does not use his own in house drivers sending a message to the market I use B brand may be miss interpreted and would therefore be reluctant to advise.
    Technically only system engineering can determine that and what designer would publicise his IP when all you have to do it plug in your amp and see if you like it?

    ie Is the loudspeaker suited to 8 or 4 ohm taps for a valve amp?

    This is a difficult question to answer without knowing the design of your amps, ie the output impediance and the phase angle of the loudspeaker impedance (resistive or reactive).

    If I was the loudspeaker guy I would be reluctant to make comment
    Some designer get around this by stating their drivers are made to their specifications which is not that difficult these days.

    OMA in NY have lavish designs $100K Plus and they state nothing of their designs other than the basic physics.

    The their marketing does the talking with industry experts behind the designs.

    So its not useful to make a blanket statement that no specs means the brand is doubtful.

    More often than not a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

  12. #57
    Maron Horonzakz
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    I believe Wagner was doing the flameing,,A little bit of knowledge is what he was askng for before he whent on a diatribe..

  13. #58
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    I believe Wagner was doing the flameing,,A little bit of knowledge is what he was askng for before he whent on a diatribe..
    I'm not taking sides—because I love all you guys . . . but there's an acrimonious personality clash going on here and all the rest of us are getting caught in the cross fire.

    Truce?

    Vielen Dank!

    A sheynem dank!
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I don't see the relationship between asking questions and the price point or if its mutli national or one man show.

    The fact to decline your request has annoyed you.

    But your questions may have been better asked.

    What is the relevance of the drivers in determining of you like the system or if it will suit your amps?

    Your question is a leading question in that context. Perhaps you are fishing for details of the design?

    As he does not use his own in house drivers sending a message to the market I use B brand may be miss interpreted and would therefore be reluctant to advise.
    Technically only system engineering can determine that and what designer would publicise his IP when all you have to do it plug in your amp and see if you like it?

    ie Is the loudspeaker suited to 8 or 4 ohm taps for a valve amp?

    This is a difficult question to answer without knowing the design of your amps, ie the output impediance and the phase angle of the loudspeaker impedance (resistive or reactive).

    If I was the loudspeaker guy I would be reluctant to make comment
    Some designer get around this by stating their drivers are made to their specifications which is not that difficult these days.

    OMA in NY have lavish designs $100K Plus and they state nothing of their designs other than the basic physics.

    The their marketing does the talking with industry experts behind the designs.

    So its not useful to make a blanket statement that no specs means the brand is doubtful.

    More often than not a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    So its not useful to make a blanket statement that no specs means the brand is doubtful.
    First, let us set the record straight; I never did make or imply such a statement. Some of you just infer and go off on all sorts of shit that's not being said or even the topic, I don't understand it, but's let's wrap this up, shall we?

    I hear you and I concur on all your points of fact; that there is more than one way to build a mouse trap and not everyone does everything the same way every time. But speaking to some of your points:

    I never made mention nor was my original intent to determine the country of origin of anything used by Greg Roberts. My emails to him were NOT an attempt to gain evidence in order to refute his "All American" claims; the "made in the prc" tangent was the result of this thread being derailed.

    OK, now that I have said that for what feels like the one hundredth time, I had to go "fishing" as you put it, not to engage in industrial espionage or reverse engineering (as Greg seems to fear, or so he says), not to find reasons to belie and belittle his products or designs but to at least garner some of the most essential of information as there is regarding his loudspeakers and my main point of interest for what really matters, their SOUND.
    Yes, my initial draw was the fact that they were horns and a build quality of what appears to be of exquisite craftsmanship (or so they seem), but no need to do the dance of price negotiations or the "foreplay" as someone put it, if once I learned of the essentials I would know immediately I would proceed no farther, so why waste both of our time?

    As everyone knows by now, Volti Audio designs use off the shelf drivers, fine. I want to know exactly which ones. With this information, and assuming the drivers employed are/were well known and accessible, I could at least have some possible idea of what his systems might sound like, kind of, sort of, maybe. At least some small shred of an idea of what their sonic character MIGHT be. A thought, an idea.........SOMETHING

    Because, these $15,000 dollar a pair and up loudspeakers are NOT AVAILABLE IN STORES,
    HE HAS NO DEALERS,
    THERE IS NO SHOWROOM,
    YOU CANNOT HEAR BEFORE YOU BUY unless you just happen to live next door to Greg in Tennessee or attend a trade show. Trying to break into the market at this price point with the "internet only" option currently available, I would think this guy would be HAPPY to answer questions. What's he think, "social media"'s going to make him a star?
    I doubt very much that Mr. Roberts would be willing to ship a pair out to me, here in California, for an in home audition (at $15K I would ALMOST expect that option) and I am not planning any trips to Boulder Colorado or New York or Las Vegas or wherever else the hell it is he may be hawking them at the trade shows next, simply to have a listen. The woodwork is not THAT nice!

    So, I asked of Mr. Roberts some very basic and essential information regarding his product. If HE is "annoyed" by that as you put it, or finds it suspicious or wishes to "assert his "rights" as many have put it or whatever it is, then fine, that's his prerogative. BUT, tough shit, 'cause guess what?

    Ding! Ding! "No Sale" Ya jes let one git away thar Greg ole boy.

    Greg Roberts is just a guy selling some, what appears to be, very well made, expensive loudspeakers. He's just a guy. He's not a guru, he's not a god, he's not James B. Lansing or Paul Klipsch. He's not Greg Timbers or Edmond May. He has no history or back story other than that of being a long time member of the Klipsch forums. What little information out there is scattered and not always in agreement. And lastly, his own "website" , which is more like a few web "pages", is little more than audio cheese cake shots with little to no useful information.

    So, with all of that and then some in mind, I do not feel nor am I going to jump through hoops in dealing with this guy. I'm the one with the money that he wants. I don't have to figure out a way shmooze this guy or have "foreplay" with him or any of the other ridiculous shit that people have suggested.

    He is attempting to break into a HIGHLY competitive business, what I call the prestige market. I understand EXACTLY what he wants and is trying to do. I know of the target demographic of which he dreams.

    And you know what? All of you are correct, 100%. Greg Roberts can do or tell whatever the hell it is he wants to. But you know what else? Until he learns how to SELL his product he's going to be gone in about 5 minutes and that's a fact. Companies like B&W for example that know how to market to today's "prestige market" will squash him like a bug. The business model that Roberts wants pretty much evaporated after the dot com bubble burst. So unless Fabio and all of his entourage and others like him all decide that Volti Audio is the way to go his ass better wake up. And it will make NO difference how good his speakers sound, none.

    Whether Greg the "artist" likes it or not, selling is part of it, IF he wants to survive and be successful. He made a comment that not enough folks were still listening to and upgrading their K-Horns so he moved into making the new ones full time. How long does he think it will be before his "target" market that asks no questions is saturated? It's not rocket science.

    When there is a zero proprietary component to his drivers and nothing that cannot be determined with a screw driver (and access to a sample, that's the big hurdle) beside the fact that as others have already pointed out, some of the information is already being circulated, not answering such a simple inquiry from who, for all he knows, is a prospective QUALIFIED buyer (Greg probably likes to call them "clients") is SUSPECT. Plain and simple. Period. The End.

    He has deferred the "technical" things to others, maybe he needs to do the same with the sales and marketing of his fledgling enterprise.

    Enough time wasted on this bull shit. Now that I know there is no way I am dealing with this guy I really don't care anymore what drivers he uses.

  15. #60
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Me and SVollmer and a number of other folks have heard the speakers at Audio Festivals, speaker shows,
    whatever you want to call them. They sounded nice in that enviroment.
    I suspect there are sales generated through that medium. Don't know or care how many,
    but for a small business, he may not need to sell a lot of them to keep busy.

    If you don't like them, don't buy them - its an easy mantra to remember ...

    At least during the original stuff I saw from him, his main business is/was custom homes
    and the speaker refurbs and custom designs was a hobby.

    Why anyone thinks he needs to get approval from anyone in this forum I'll never know.
    This whole thread started weird and went off the rails quickly ...
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