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  1. #16
    Senior Member svollmer's Avatar
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    I'm not affiliated with Volti in any way either, but I'm just perplexed at what all the fuss is about. Mr. Roberts is certainly not the first to own a speaker company by focusing on the area of his expertise (cabinet making) and subcontracting some of the other work out (acoustical design). John Otvos of Waveform fame did exactly this too. Revel uses Kevin Voecks and many speaker manufacturers use a combination of in-house and contracted resources to design/test/finalize their products and then the produce them for market.

    I too met Mr. Roberts at the 2013 and 2012 Capital Audiofests and he was a complete joy to talk to and took the time to explain how his speakers are built, what his design goals are, etc. And they sounded Fantastic! The first year I met him, he had the drivers he used on display. The following year, he told me that he had decided to no longer advertise what he uses because he wanted that kept confidential. So what? Will any BBQ sauce maker tell you his/her recepie? If not, does it taste worse?

    And almost NO speaker manufacturer today makes their drivers in-house, nor will they tell you what they use. Some may tell you that their tweeters are from Focal or their woofers are from Accuton. But none of them will tell you exaclty which models they use and if they're modified for their design, they will never tell you what the modification is. Ask Wilson Audio what drivers they use; they'll most likely not share much. And they pot their crossovers so others can't see what components are in them without destroying them.

    If I don't like what a manufacturer tells me, I don't try to get them to change their business practice. I just move on.

    I see nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical here. Sorry, just my perspective.

  2. #17
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    OMG - JBL potted their older crossovers too - the SCANDAL!!

    (Have a great weekend Steve!)

    Quote Originally Posted by svollmer View Post
    Ask Wilson Audio what drivers they use; they'll most likely not share much. And they pot their crossovers so others can't see what components are in them without destroying them.

    If I don't like what a manufacturer tells me, I don't try to get them to change their business practice. I just move on.

    I see nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical here. Sorry, just my perspective.
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieSteve View Post
    I Have just discovered Volti horns as well, and I fell in love with what I saw. I was watching them and him promote same on Youtube, and it seemed ridiculous using horns and his hands to show how sound works. Unprofessional for someone flogging $20K loudspeakers. As I looked at the website, I noticed nothing related to real specs or components. I was seriously considering putting away some cash to buy them, but after this I will not bother. This bloke could be out of business in a year and I have NOWHERE to go for parts or service! It's a shame he's not sold himself and his company as a serious player, the speakers are gorgeous. I happened to find another maker, DC10 Audio, they make great horn speakers and indeed one model- the Berlin Reference that comes with a JBL Alnico NOS driver from around 1979!!! They sound great.

    Thank you, the voice of reason and from someone that actually read my post.

    I don't know what all this Greg Roberts defense league lecturing is all about; all I wanted to know was who's (more importantly models and or specs) drivers he used for two reasons:
    1. Amp compatibility
    and
    2. Future service needs

    And I'm catching shit for it? At this forum? After what a one time iconic giant did as far as specs and service parts? Unbelievable.

    Everyone can pick sides and "think" what they wish but my opinion remains unchanged. You expect 15K and or up and refuse to speak to technical and or service needs and you are full of shit, period (and just MIGHT have something to hide, note I said MIGHT)

    The discussion was never about the merits, or any criticism of, outsourcing, re-badging, subcontracting, buying from vendors versus manufacturing in house or Greg Robert's personality.........none of it. Don't know where all this BS is coming from?

    He could take care of a lot of this by simply publishing some honest specs on his systems but he also refuses to do that, but oh yeah, Greg's an "artist" and doesn't like to get all bogged down with such pesky details..........he doesn't even provide a nominal impedance measurement! Guess his target demographic is expected to allow him, the "artist" to take care of those amplifier needs as well.

    And there would be no issue for me me anyway except for the fact that these are for purchase ON-LINE ONLY.

    And just to be adamantly clear, I never said one derogatory or negative word regarding the sound of this joker's speakers.

    Not one

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    Let me set the record straight,,,I knew Paul klipsch very well.... He never made any of his drivers,,, only the speaker cabinets,,,,JBL also sourced other manufactured speaker drivers...so I don't understand the beef,,,
    Exactly.
    And Paul Klipsch would be more than happy to tell you who's and the whys of his choices.
    He also held PATENTS on all of his designs and stated on more than one occasion, and in the design goals of said patents, that one objective was to be able to execute his designs with readily available parts whenever possible. He considered this good practice, placing more of an emphasis on the design rather than the "bull shit" as his famous badges proclaimed.

    http://www.itishifi.com/2011/02/orig...it-button.html

    http://www.fastcompany.com/3026282/h...k-to-charm-the

    If what Greg Roberts has going on is so unique or proprietary then he too should have little problem applying for and receiving a patent himself for his own designs, wouldn't you think? He stated in the email I posted here that that was one of his concerns, so in effect he has already answered at least part of one of my questions. His stuff is built with off the shelf hardware I would venture and that is fine. He also states there is "nothing I can do about that". Yeah there is Greg, do what P.W.K. would have done and get a PATENT. That is unless what you're doing already belongs to someone else.

    There is no "beef", just what feels like a pile on to defend some joker that builds very expensive boutique speaker systems, available only on-line, but cannot or will not reveal any technical information or actually show a great deal of product for that matter.

    I can only come up with two reasons why that would be the case but what do I know

    He doesn't even make any amplifier recommendations other than one which he just happens to sell also.

    I mean from what some have written you'd think this guy was Santa Claus and I had just kicked him in the nuts

    Just a call for "more data, less wank" (thank you Zilch)

  5. #20
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    So once your warranty is up, I get your service dollars too............

    ..........bet he removes all the part numbers and maker codes.

    (Reminds me of the $5,995 dollar Lexicon MC-1 preamp with it's notorious power supply burn outs, back at the beginning of the 2000s decade. Lexicon would never provide any details but would happily charge you around $700 I think it was to install their custom built, proprietary ONLY available from them at the "factory" replacement. Turns out it was nothing more than a cheap $25 dollar chinese off the shelf PSU made by Artesyn. Only thing "proprietary" about it was the part number they gave it, I politely declined their offer and finally dug up the O.E.S. part #, on a 6K chip amp and they still gouged like that on and at service time? after someone had spent 6K with them?...........but I digress)

    Wants "reliably sourced" just so long as the end user doesn't know from whom. Dodges directly answering the question really well:

    " LB: Without giving away any trade secrets, what can you share with us regarding your choice of drivers?GR: One of things I learned about during my development of the Vittora, was the importance of choosing drivers that can be reliably sourced. This is especially important with a bass horn, where the horn is specifically designed around a particular driver. It would be disastrous to develop a new bass horn only to have your driver supplier go belly up after only a few months.I chose all the drivers based on reliability of my source, on durability and longevity, and finally on sound quality, determined by listening. I think it’s a good combination of parts that have been integrated nicely by John’s crossovers. John did all of the final acoustic testing of the Vittoras as well, and he provides individual test results for each pair of crossovers delivered to our customers."

    http://dagogo.com/an-interview-with-...of-volti-audio

    All this from the self described Apostle of "P.W.K."

    What a bargain

    Bet you a nickel he'll be out of business in a year at this rate. At least as Volti Audio anyway.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdZv_AOEe9Y

    Here, a wood worker and home builder by trade:
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-129

    Musical background implied here:
    http://dagogo.com/an-interview-with-...of-volti-audio

    And here a life time's worth of years devoted to custom being a custom A/V installer:
    http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/0...audio-vittora/

    The Legend Grows!

    The internet is amazing

    You would think this guy is Thomas Jefferson by the time they're through!

    All I want to know is something about the speakers without having to scrounge for it all over the place

    He'll be in the Audio Hall of Fame soon along with James Bullough Lansing and his hero "P.W.K.", just read post #7:
    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1208765

    But I am managing to gather a little intel, would just be nice to have it all confirmed!


  6. #21
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    Wagner, he gets his woofers from Eminence, his mids from BMS, and I don't know about his tweets. It would not be too hard to figure out, from a current owner. You need to calm the x down.
    Neither is going away soon.

    There are not too many patents issued to speaker manufacturers these days, as there is not too much groundbreaking innovation.

    It would be curious to see what speakers you own. I know all my JBL speaker parts now are manufactured either in Mexico, or sourced from another foreign country.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheltiedave View Post
    Wagner, he gets his woofers from Eminence, his mids from BMS, and I don't know about his tweets. It would not be too hard to figure out, from a current owner. You need to calm the x down.
    Neither is going away soon.

    There are not too many patents issued to speaker manufacturers these days, as there is not too much groundbreaking innovation.

    It would be curious to see what speakers you own. I know all my JBL speaker parts now are manufactured either in Mexico, or sourced from another foreign country.

    Sucks to be you then; maybe you should put a little sweat equity into a pair of heritage JBLs as I and many others have. That way you can rest assured of 100% American design AND manufacture. It is well worth the effort, I promise you! But you will need to verify the cabinet load before you buy them!

    Do they suck as badly as my used to be made here, much beloved SHURE cartridges which are being made in Mexico now as well? 'Cause THEY sure suck now when compared to what it used to be like from those guys, let me tell ya!

    If it's so easy then why does he feel the need to make it so hard? Perceived value clashing with real value perhaps? Even to a fool with more money than sense? Same goes for overall quality as well, which in my world includes customer support and response to any issues that may arise. I guess at 15 Grand I'm just supposed to take this guy at his word that he'll be here next year this time? Get real; I've lost count of all the darlings, the flavor of the month Stereophile sweethearts that were here and then gone inside of 5 years. And without exception, ALL expensive and in most cases customer support and parts simply collapsed or evaporated all together.

    As for what speakers I own:
    Pair C40 Harkness, 001 load, old style wooden legs, sold a year or so ago, big mistake, still hurts

    Still own:
    Pair Stephens Tru-Sonic 206-AXAs in Stephens factory modified reflex boxes
    Pair Electro-Voice Sentry 500
    Pair L112
    Pair L96
    2 Pair L20 with 4406 crossovers
    Pair L100(A) - almost end of the run
    Pair L55
    Pair 1984 Heresy
    2 Pairs 1985 Heresy II
    Pair AR-2ax
    Pair AR-5
    Pair Telefunken 5403 "Sound Columns"
    Pair Infinity 2000 II with hard and soft tops
    Pair B&W CDM-1 - original version
    Pair B&W DM-302
    2 Pair Paradigm Titan - original version
    Pair of some nondescript SONY product, SS-H1600L that I use for testing work on the bench, paid .02 cents for them literally at the end of the month clearance at the local thrift

    Most all re-foamed, re-coned, refinished, re-capped or otherwise in some way rehabbed or reconstructed by moi

    Many others have come and gone throughout my life

    Would you care for an inventory of my electronics as well?

    I don't know why I need to "calm the x down"
    My responses may have been a bit over the top but were in response to a bunch of mouths lecturing me on what a great guy Greg Roberts is, and I never said anything (initially) about the guy!

    I did ask if anyone knew anything about him, and his speakers, and if my initial reaction was "full of shit" I believe it was. To that I have heard nothing but noise and the same vague guesses and old information that I too could come up with thanks to Google

    I think Greg Roberts is essentially a plagiarist and is selling as much of the Barzilay factor as he is sound (again, I am not knocking their sound, I've never heard a pair, that's why I asked all of these questions)
    But I have heard plenty of Klipsch, got the hearing damage to prove it
    Appealing on the exclusivity of a product that isn't really exclusive at all and nothing at least 50 other forum members here haven't already done and then some. But it is a soft sell on the "special club" angle

    No different from the purveyors of $300 Sony/Philips CD players concealed in $10,000 boxes

    I have gone to great lengths to acknowledge, that is MY opinion

    But let's be serious here, he's asking $15K a pair and that's just for starters

    Guys here want to know not only the load but the version and serial numbers of USED speakers for Christ's sake!

    My question as posed to Greg Roberts of Volti Audio was not unreasonable, rude or insulting

    As this ridiculous thread has lost sense of proportion and original topic, I made the effort to post those links to the several interviews were he is equally evasive when quizzed by the no name e-mags interviewing him

    I admit, I did get pissed off with the attitude shown by some and was merely defending and supporting my new found position, arrived at while trying to find out what drivers the joker uses and some specific, reliable specs

    Holy cow! What is so unreasonable about that?

    No one has definitively answered my question(s), I don't know any Volti Audio owners, there is no dealer or show room and Greg ain't talkin' so

    Further more, country of origin was never mentioned, or criticized, at least not by me, so you got me on where the hell that came from unless I missed something?
    (Mexico came up I think in the context of crap product support and quality control as it pertains to Jane's JBL)

    Please read Post # 1 before you join in on the pile on and lecturing

  8. #23
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    NOT to inflame things ,( and I agree with a lot of what you've said Wagner) , BUT
    there are so many companies, so much competition, that if a seller does not
    do whatever is needed to sell to me ...I move on,

    UNLESS the product is so spectacular and unique that further investigation is
    warranted. It doesn't sound like this product is
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  9. #24
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    That does seem like the best plan, buy it or not -
    otherwise just move on ...



    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    NOT to inflame things ,( and I agree with a lot of what you've said Wagner) , BUT
    there are so many companies, so much competition, that if a seller does not
    do whatever is needed to sell to me ...I move on,

    UNLESS the product is so spectacular and unique that further investigation is
    warranted. It doesn't sound like this product is
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  10. #25
    Maron Horonzakz
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    Some buyers just cant be satisfied... I just politely show them the door...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    NOT to inflame things ,( and I agree with a lot of what you've said Wagner) , BUT
    there are so many companies, so much competition, that if a seller does not
    do whatever is needed to sell to me ...I move on,

    UNLESS the product is so spectacular and unique that further investigation is
    warranted. It doesn't sound like this product is
    Thank you, and don't worry about inflammation

    I'm done with this exercise in futility. I don't have the energy or the desire to engage in debate on the two sides of keepin' the customer satisfied in today's internet world. Especially in light of the fact it has absolutely nothing to do with what I originally asked, although a couple of posters understood my point and question. The trick is they actually read it, thank you!

    These two statements (clipped from context but not edited) literally blew my mind! The paradigm shift!

    Quote Originally Posted by svollmer View Post
    If I don't like what a manufacturer tells me, I don't try to get them to change their business practice. I just move on.

    I see nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical here. Sorry, just my perspective.
    Next thing 'ya know we'll be debating brick and mortar versus e-tail and how it affects consumer's rights versus tax revenues!

    Anyone actually own a pair of Volt Audio speakers and or can actually put up some real measurements, that would be great! Thanks!

  12. #27
    Maron Horonzakz
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    Giving you some real measurements would be like opening up a can of worms,,,,You,d ask if they are fesh

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    Some buyers just cant be satisfied... I just politely show them the door...

    Yeah! Take a stand and show 'em who's boss, that's what I say!

    On a serious note, I've seen you around for years but have just now been inspired to Google your name and take a look at your oft mentioned business.

    I cannot find any references to you other than AK, Missouri and here.

    Please post a link if you would, I'd like to see what you do

    Thanks

  14. #29
    Maron Horonzakz
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    I dabbled in HYPERSONIC AIRCRAFT...Amongst other things,,,

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz View Post
    Giving you some real measurements would be like opening up a can of worms,,,,You,d ask if they are fesh
    You are SUCH a funny guy!

    This is sounding just like Republicans versus Democrats on talk radio here now! Lot's of smart ass remarks with no basis or relationship at all to the original subject.

    Besides, I love my worms fesh, they gotta be fesh I tell ya! Yes siree Bob!

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