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Thread: "Remember, there is no substitute for a big-ass 4-way speaker!" -- Does this qualify?

  1. #31
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    Italian Wives & DSPs !!

    Quote Originally Posted by NickH View Post
    Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

    If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.



    I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

    Nick
    Nick,

    Yes, the consequences of that life philosophy can be 'brutal' -- to say the least. I am responsible for getting several guys -- myself included -- into serious 'nine-line-binds' by encouraging that sort of cavalier attitude! Greg (Wife, not Italian.)

    Barry and Ivica,

    (Barry, your " ... as yet unquantified point they begin self attracting and it's really hard to stop them from coming to you nearly on their own." nearly caused me to fall out of my chair laughing! I think I may be close.)

    DSPs: The Clair is just a 'black box' to me at this point in time -- but a $1,000 'black box' nonetheless.

    A quick look at the 'auction place' revealed two items that seem to be appropriate, as well as 'reasonable' in price:

    1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/dbx-Driverac...item56691915e6

    This one is nearly new and will probably go for $400, or so. The MSRP is $1250.

    2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DBX-481-Driv...item19f2a7ed5a

    This one appeals to me a bit more -- I suppose because it cost $2500 eight years ago and looks like it comes with a bunch of cables. It uses the DbX Driveware (Whatever that is? ) and I have a spare HP Ultrabook that could easily be used with the Kingston adapter.

    Any suggestions on the approach? The Clair 'Black Box' may be worth $10,000, but it may not come with the keys! The DBX-481 might fall in the 'better-the-devil-you-know' category. (Another one of my ol' geezer' mantras! )

    Sound quality is everything -- I realize that is why we do all this. My main 'preamp' is an Anthem Statement D-1. I use it because it is quiet as a tomb. Will the processors be as 'clean' and have as low a 'floor'?

    Finally. For reasons I can't admit without doing further damage to my already-tarnished reputation, I have two 'spare' AVM 30s -- units for which I have great regard for their audio prowess (Plus they are easy for an idiot to operate!)

    'Daisy-chained' together -- D1 + AVM 30 + AVM 30 -- I would have a total of thirty (30!) outputs -- RCA or Balanced -- that can each be optimized for a certain part of the audio spectrum! Would that be an option for someone like me -- ie not-so-clever?

    Thank you, everyone, for your help!

    Greg

  2. #32
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickH View Post
    Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

    If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.

    I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

    Nick
    I've been married 42 years to a beautiful, but tough North Vietnamese lady and have tried every trick/scenario.
    The one that works (right now), is to involve her in the purchase ..take her with me ...she is great with the seller,
    and her involvement/emotional investment seems to lessen the shock.

    The current line is "Oh this is just temporary, I'll just fix them up and make some money and then they'll be gone"
    Eventually she forgets/ignores them.
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mike F's Avatar
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    Congrats on the purchase, that's quite a piece of Live Sound history you've come across..
    There had been several incarnations since their 1974 debut and yours look to be later versions judging by the driver and horn complement. Audio Analysts, a large touring sound provider too had a version.
    Check out this link to the 1983 US Festival where 180 were used.
    http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/us_festival/
    I can only imagine what that was like.

    I`ve been a big fan of those (as you can see by my avatar)and had the good fortune of mixing on those speakers on many occasions over the years. While not the most technologically advanced system especially in later years, they were always a hell of a lot of fun to work with and listen to, sounded like BIG L 100s

  4. #34
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hi Greg;

    Sorry to be so slow, work is trying to kill me again.

    I will look at the DBX 481? I use the 4800's (which went obsolete last month on the DBX website) but have never used the older units. I wonder what's coming down the pipe to replace the flagship 4800?

    I have had no luck so far in finding out any more than has already been posted about the original crossover.

    All the best,
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  5. #35
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    Thanks -- Barry & Mike!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Hi Greg;

    Sorry to be so slow, work is trying to kill me again.

    I will look at the DBX 481? I use the 4800's (which went obsolete last month on the DBX website) but have never used the older units. I wonder what's coming down the pipe to replace the flagship 4800?

    I have had no luck so far in finding out any more than has already been posted about the original crossover.

    All the best,
    Barry.
    Mike, I appreciate the positive comment on the system. I know the components are there -- but can I tame the beast with my meager know-how?

    Barry, no problem at all. You have been a huge help in several questions I have had. Thanks for being patient with me. I bought the 481 -- I think it will prove useful, no matter the project.

    I know I'll get blasted for this, but here goes, Barry: I know the originals were stacked several units tall -- as arrays. But if you rotate one piece 90 degrees clockwise and the other unit counterclockwise, you end up with mirror-image units.

    What do the mirror-image units look like? They look like dual 4345s on each side, to me -- except each side would have dual mids. What if I built 4 4345 crossovers, and brought the speaker leads to the rear of the cabinets. I could even add bi-amp capability with a high-low divider. Two 4345s on each side of the room -- would that sound great, or would the drivers interfere with one another? The box is made for the drivers. The drivers would be powered in unison, just as if the large input cable on the back were used -- so how bad could it be?

    OK -- I'm ready to be roasted.

    Greg

  6. #36
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgregory4 View Post
    .... What do the mirror-image units look like? They look like dual 4345s on each side, to me -- except each side would have dual mids. What if I built 4 4345 crossovers, and brought the speaker leads to the rear of the cabinets. I could even add bi-amp capability with a high-low divider. Two 4345s on each side of the room -- would that sound great, or would the drivers interfere with one another? The box is made for the drivers. The drivers would be powered in unison, just as if the large input cable on the back were used -- so how bad could it be? OK -- I'm ready to be roasted. Greg
    Hi Greg,
    Looking at the pictures You have sent us, I think that 90 deg rotation would produce a great problem in the mid-bass and VHF section horizontal dispersion. I can guess that a kind of beaming would be present, so I can only imagine the rotation at 180 deg (so 2405 become on the top) would be a better decision.

    May be 4350/55 crossover has not to be neglected, but a kind of measurements of each drivers section has to be done, as a kind of the "mutual drivers coupling" is present.

    Regards
    ivica
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  7. #37
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    90 degrees would put the 2405's at the top.

    Allan.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    90 degrees would put the 2405's at the top.

    Allan.
    Yes, but mid-bass array (4 drivers) and VHF (2 drivers) may can reduce the horizontal dispersion ( either 2405 ) if such position would be taken. As can be sen from the attached figure.

    I think the best would be mounting boxes as high as possible, and then inclined towards the listening place,
    to try to be as fare as possible from the 'ground plane'.

    regards
    ivica
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  9. #39
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    Obviously one would rotate the 2405's by a further 90 degrees.

    Allan.

  10. #40
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    Yes, Allan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    Obviously one would rotate the 2405's by a further 90 degrees.

    Allan.
    Yes, it seems to me that if the 2405s are rotated 90 degrees, then the drivers all have decent horizontal dispersion possibilities, and the cabinets are mirror-imaged.

    Many thanks to you and ivica for your positive comments on my unorthodox ideas/searches for coaxing some good sound from the boxes .

    Greg

  11. #41
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    But then you will have the HF and the mid high drivers side to side, which will create comb filtering on the horizontal plane.... not good.
    You should keep the drivers stacked vertically, not horizontally.

    Even the four mid bass drivers spread so wide on the horizontal plane will wreak havoc.
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  12. #42
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    Thanks, but some questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    But then you will have the HF and the mid high drivers side to side, which will create comb filtering on the horizontal plane.... not good.
    You should keep the drivers stacked vertically, not horizontally.

    Even the four mid bass drivers spread so wide on the horizontal plane will wreak havoc.
    I don't comprehend your extensive audio vocabulary, but I have no doubts you raise some legitimate issues. However, isn't the side-by-side placement of the 2405 and a mid/high horn, one of the distinctive features of JBLs best speakers -- eg 4345, among others? Also, I think I could make do with 2 of the 4 mid/lows, if needed to prevent near-field interference.

    I'd like to know your thoughts on these possibilities, Eaulive.

    Thank you,

    Greg

  13. #43
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgregory4 View Post
    I don't comprehend your extensive audio vocabulary, but I have no doubts you raise some legitimate issues. However, isn't the side-by-side placement of the 2405 and a mid/high horn, one of the distinctive features of JBLs best speakers -- eg 4345, among others? Also, I think I could make do with 2 of the 4 mid/lows, if needed to prevent near-field interference.

    I'd like to know your thoughts on these possibilities, Eaulive.

    Thank you,

    Greg
    Hi Greg

    I think that figure in the post>
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post365878
    would give You the best horizontal dispersion, as I said, I think the best would be to move the whole boxes as high as possible, inclined towards the listening position.

    regards
    ivica

  14. #44
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    Thank you, Sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    Hi Greg

    I think that figure in the post>
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post365878
    would give You the best horizontal dispersion, as I said, I think the best would be to move the whole boxes as high as possible, inclined towards the listening position.

    regards
    ivica
    I will keep your advice in mind and probably try it first, since it requires the least effort to start with, and I'll try to keep you posted on my progress.

    Thank you for your positive posts, ivica,

    Greg

  15. #45
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    The 2405s are to the side of the horn in the 434X series of monitors. I'd run 'em like in post #38 with the 2405 slots vertical. It's not like you can't flip them around some other way if that doesn't suit you.

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