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Thread: "Remember, there is no substitute for a big-ass 4-way speaker!" -- Does this qualify?

  1. #16
    Senior Member audiomagnate's Avatar
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    They used 48 of these monsters, on each side (!!??) for the Frampton "Comes Alive" tour. No wonder people are still talking about it.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen mueller View Post
    I've got a pair of those fiberglass horns. There was a seller selling them for like 30$ a piece and couldn't resist giving them a try. Not a bad horn at all.

    Al

    Allen,
    You wouldn't happen to remember where he was selling them do you? I'd like to try a pair too.
    Thanks
    Paul

  3. #18
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Cgregory4 the next block party!
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  4. #19
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    Dave: Did Tim ever meet me?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    Cgregory4 the next block party!
    It would seem so, and this thread is plenty proof: "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  5. #20
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    Allan at Christchurch -- A question, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    The original S4's used either a 2440 or 2441 on a 2343 horn. 3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000. Not sure what ther newer horns were.

    Allan.
    Allan,

    Would you elaborate and explain this phrase in some not-too-technical detail for me? >>> "3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000." Thank you.

    Greg

  6. #21
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgregory4 View Post
    Allan,

    Would you elaborate and explain this phrase in some not-too-technical detail for me? >>> "3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000." Thank you.

    Greg
    Hi,

    bass sction up to 200Hz driven by bass amp
    midbass sction from 200Hz to 1200Hz drivem by midbass amp
    VHF and UHF sction from 1200 Hz up to say 20000Hz driven by VHF amp., but
    frequency from VHF amp by passive network devided 1200Hz to 7000Hz connected to VHF
    driver 2441, and from 7000Hz to 20000 connected to UHF driver 2405., VHF amp drives VHF and UHF drivers.

    3 amps and 4 speakers Neglecting some of the same chategory connected together in paralelle.
    regards
    ivica

  7. #22
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgregory4 View Post
    It would seem so, and this thread is plenty proof: "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini
    Don't know if you and he ever met, but maybe---He was actually talking about people at the margins of the industry who can potentially skew the thinking of a lot of people down blind alleys, I should think, not us diyers, who are usually only annoying, but if we are a danger at all, it would be to ourselves and our own happy domesticity.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  8. #23
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    Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

    Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey

  9. #24
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    Here is a slice from history. Also, if you look at the Queen video "It's A Kind Of Magic" at about 1:35 you will see a pair of S4's. The really cool thing about these cabs, they were in use for 36 odd years and were the first "all in one" 4 way.

    Allan.

    http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/print/clair_bros

  10. #25
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    Right-Brained Thinking!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wsilva View Post
    Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

    Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey
    You are so 'with it'!!!

    Greg

  11. #26
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    Some humour & Some serious questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by wsilva View Post
    Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

    Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey
    wsilva: Thanks for the compliment -- I may have to give them to you at some point. However, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of me trying to get my 46" waist through that woofer opening!
    As for the rest of the "You are toast comments.", I've always lived by the saying, "It's easier to get forgiveness, than permission."

    Some serious questions, please,

    1. The seller has the 'electronic crossover' (I really have no clue what it actually is, other than the Clair design that is meant to be used with the S4.) He is also attempting to find a matching 'cable set' for the unit. Both will set me back some serious bucks. After reading many of your comments, it sounds like I would be better off with neither. Any thoughts, please? I need to decide fairly quickly, as we will probably have that discussion on Tuesday.

    2. Assuming at least 3 amps and a couple passive crossovers per S4, will I better off installing HD binding posts on the rear of each cabinet -- and not using the commercial 'pin' connections?

    3. I know I 'outkicked my coverage' on this project. Is there someone on the forum that works with fools like me to complete such a project? Naturally, I will absolutely compensate them for their time and expertise.

    4. I am in no hurry to do this project -- I only hope I have enough days left to accomplish it. So, I will be very easy to work with, and the pace will be leisurely. The big pain in the ass will be my obvious ignorance. But many years ago I earned my BSEE, so it's not like I'm absolutely clueless!

    Thanks to everyone!

    Greg

  12. #27
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hi Greg;

    You are indeed a man after my own heart! I have looked at those when they come up for sale now and then and wondered and thought about buying a pair but I am running out of space for big black boxes with magnets in them. Beware after you reach a certain as yet unquantified point they begin self attracting and it's really hard to stop them from coming to you nearly on their own. I now call my mezzanine "black hole audio".

    As for the serious question about the frequency dividing network and cabling:

    It would sure be interesting to get some specifics from that crossover box. I will search and see if there is a fairly complete description of it beyond the crossover points that have been listed. If anyone has more information on this, please share!

    If it's possible to borrow one for a day or two and it could come to Las Vegas I would be glad to extract complete transfer function from it and that could then easily be loaded into something like a DBX260 or the like that is easily manipulated to suit your listening tastes as it's likely that your intended listening will be in a slightly different environment than they were designed and tuned for.

    If not, the basics can be loaded into any DSP box like the above mentioned DBX and get started. I don't know how many raw systems like this you have experienced but they are not unlike a very high performance automobile that when improperly tuned can be, despite all their potential, can and likely will be very disappointing. Don't let this ruin the experience!

    I believe those have a lot of possibility. I have some of those old Canon plugs and can send you a pair if you want to power them up that way at least initially.

    On the amp side, I would put a couple of thousand watts across each pair of 2242's. That might sound crazy to a lot of folks but 2242's are at their best with a ton of amp on them even if you aren't trying to shake your house down.

    What do you have for signal processing? Is a DSP system like a DriveRack up your alley?

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  13. #28
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgregory4 View Post
    wsilva: Thanks for the compliment -- I may have to give them to you at some point. However, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of me trying to get my 46" waist through that woofer opening!
    As for the rest of the "You are toast comments.", I've always lived by the saying, "It's easier to get forgiveness, than permission."

    Some serious questions, please,

    1. The seller has the 'electronic crossover' (I really have no clue what it actually is, other than the Clair design that is meant to be used with the S4.) He is also attempting to find a matching 'cable set' for the unit. Both will set me back some serious bucks. After reading many of your comments, it sounds like I would be better off with neither. Any thoughts, please? I need to decide fairly quickly, as we will probably have that discussion on Tuesday.

    2. Assuming at least 3 amps and a couple passive crossovers per S4, will I better off installing HD binding posts on the rear of each cabinet -- and not using the commercial 'pin' connections?

    3. I know I 'outkicked my coverage' on this project. Is there someone on the forum that works with fools like me to complete such a project? Naturally, I will absolutely compensate them for their time and expertise.

    4. I am in no hurry to do this project -- I only hope I have enough days left to accomplish it. So, I will be very easy to work with, and the pace will be leisurely. The big pain in the ass will be my obvious ignorance. But many years ago I earned my BSEE, so it's not like I'm absolutely clueless!

    Thanks to everyone!

    Greg
    Hi Greg,

    May for Your project would be a better solution to use DSP driven network,to day a lot of such systems are on the market.
    A fiend of mine has XILICA (http://xilica.com/products/x-series-2/ ) that has 8-output DSP network, using 4 stereo amps.
    With such You can compensate drivers responses , and geometry position, for each drivers sets (BASS, MID, VHF and UHF) independently.
    It would be useful to get some measurements microphone and a kind of software that would be easy to start.
    Regards
    Ivica

  14. #29
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    Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

    If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.



    I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

    Nick

  15. #30
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Great,but seems to be a tough job,you've got a lot to do
    46 lover

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