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Thread: Data Comparison: Stock vs. Aftermarket Recone 2245H Parameters

  1. #16
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Frankly, there will be ice cubes in hell before I'm likely to sell any vintage JBL stuff on Ebay. I have no interest in "cold call" selling. If I sell something, it'll be to someone who I can get a feel for, that will honestly understand what was done and why it was done. And that can only be done in a one-on-one conversation.

    I make it crystal clear, about anything I've reconed, as to where the parts came from and how the work was done. OTOH, I also let the person see and hear, in person, the end result. I've had many times, where the buyer stated that if I didn't say, that they could have had no way, by either looking or listening, of knowing it was a non-factory recone.

    In short, craftsmanship can just as easily come from a hand-assembled kit assembled by someone who knows what they're doing, as it can off of an assembly line of a major manufacturer. And as far as percieved value is concerned- in almost every case, once it's non-original parts, it really doesn't matter, in any sort of "collector" hobby, what source the parts came from- only that they LOOK and ACT as the originals. These recones easily fulfill that requirement. It's either completely original or it's not- once you've gotten there, it's just a matter of how well it emulates the original...

    Oh, and BTW: How many of these replacement kits are install tested by JBL, by anything remotely equivalent to the LEAP/LMS system I use? Do they still actually QC poll all these obsolete parts kits from the assembly line? If not, then there's a distinct probability that like the LE14 with the excessively stiff factory spider mentioned above, that the QC of a good custom reconer may EXCEED the accuracy of a factory replacement kit, if there's nobody "watching the store" on the assembly line to make sure things stay in spec. Not to mention the cases where JBL "lumps together" different drivers sharing a common recone kit- when there WERE subtle differences in the different driver models. In some of these cases, I've been able to custom assemble a kit that BETTER matched the factory specs than the specified factory replacement...

    Sorry if this seems a bit defensive or abrasive- but it kind of irks me, when I (and many other custom reconers) take the time to do things as good or BETTER than factory, and I get lumped in with fakers and charletans...

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  2. #17
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    Thumbs up

    Gordon, I appreciate your sort of custom work and all the effort put into " getting it done right" . I'd also like to continue to hear about your success stories in these areas - so please don't get too defensive about the direction this thread has gone.

    For Instance; I'd love to come up with a White or Black Aquaplas substitute. If I ever do, I'll share it and take the consequences .

    NOW:
    On a different note and direction, Inquiring minds want to know :

    - How did you arrive at your conclusion to add 10 grams (?) before you actualy did the addition of weight ?

    - And how did you meter out that specified weight ( was this airbrushed on ) ?

    - Was the added weight equally distributed ?

    Thanks for sharing <. Earl K

  3. #18
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Well, more than the weight addition being NECESSARY for the design, it was more motivated by the fact that a) I wanted the cone to be stiffer, and more resistant to moisture wicking from the air (it is to be driven probably pretty hard, and I didn't want to risk the kind of cone failures I've occasionally seen on some ribbed-cone JBL drivers, so I decided sealing and stiffening was in order) and b) I knew that the box volume, passive radiator tuning and the parametric EQ on the sub amp could all be tweaked to get a proper transfer function, all things considered. Given that this woofer was not to ever see any midrange, a bit heavier cone was not in any way detrimental; in fact, it reduced the amount of EQ necessary to achieve flat response in the bottom octave.

    As for the application- this was a liquid, brushed onto and soaked into the backside of the cone. I used a small (1/2" wide) brush, and liberally coated the cone with several coats, until I achieved about 10 grams. This seemed to be a good stopping point, as it was the point where the cone started to seem to stop soaking in the material as well, and it started to "puddle up" just a tiny bit on the backside instead of disappearing immediately.

    I'm also working on an Aquaplas substitute. I've been thinking of and/or experimenting with various materials, like talc powder, cement powder, fine sand, latex paint, powdered wallpaper adhesive (believe it or not, it DOES seem to have some rather INTERESTING damping properties when mixed with latex paint and fine sand!), and the like. Haven't really gotten anything that meets all the criteria yet, but some combinations have looked at least promising in initial tests...

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  4. #19
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    "liberally coated the cone with several coats, until I achieved about 10 grams."

    Was this 10 g. the weight during application or the weight after all of the solvent evaporated?


    Have you taken measurements again after the woofer has broken in?

    Widget

  5. #20
    Alex Lancaster
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    Smile

    Seriously, people here have tried silica sand and sugar!???.

  6. #21
    Senior Moment Member Oldmics's Avatar
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    Sugar-Not Good

    I would advise against the use of anything in the food products group for speaker dabbling.

    My daughters made a ginger bread cookie house a long time ago.I coated the house in many repeated layres of clear laquer and thought it was sealed tight.

    Went to set it up last Christmas and the critters had enjoyed the desert, laquer and all.Broke my heart!

    Critters will eat anything

    Oldmics

  7. #22
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr. Widget
    "liberally coated the cone with several coats, until I achieved about 10 grams."

    Was this 10 g. the weight during application or the weight after all of the solvent evaporated?


    Have you taken measurements again after the woofer has broken in?

    Widget
    The 10 grams (actually, to be accurate, it was closer to 11 grams) was after the solvent evaporated. I applied a couple coats, and stopped when it started to not "take" as well. I had set myself a maximum limit of 20 grams (or more accurately, .75 ounce which is like 21 grams), which I would measure BEFORE the solvent dried... I knew that if this was the case, I could kind of "home in" on the right value. Take it to 20 grams, let it dry, measure, apply a bit to get it back to 20 grams, let it dry, measure, rinse, repeat... It just happened that 10-odd grams dry was the amount the cone wanted to soak up...

    Haven't gotten to break-in the woofer properly yet. Don't have an amp big enough here at home, to do it (the amps here that are easy to access are a whopping 14 and 27 watts per channel ). Once the woofer is in the cabinet and the plate amp (which will produce 270-odd watts into an 8 ohm load) is installed, that should be short work. I dunno if I'll get to run the woofer back on LMS afterwards, though... I'll just have to base my judgement on how well it tunes out in the box, with the known passive radiator Sd and Mms...

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  8. #23
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    Hello, I also read that aftermarkets are very close.
    quoting GordonW:
    "such as 2235s, LE5s and such, it is possible to budget a good hour of labor per driver (a complete recone shouldn't take more than that, actual active work time) and still come out with a final price using aftermarket parts, that's SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the factory kit, not including labor for install..."

    I would be very interested cause I need 4 of em, can someone point out any info ?

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