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Thread: Electronic Amplification: Class D Audio SDS 470 to run my 4 Bass Energizers.

  1. #1
    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Electronic Amplification: Class D Audio SDS 470 to run my 4 Bass Energizers.

    Finally put my subwoofer amplification to bed .. well for now anyways.
    Anyone familiar with electronic amplification?
    I just purchased a Class D Audio SDS 470 to replace & compare to the original crossover/amps in the 4 Bass Energizers in my system.
    I will be able to power 2 Bass Energizers wired in parallel (600 watts per channel 4ohm load) to each channel with each Bass Energizer seeing 300 watts each.
    The Class D Audio SDS will also give me the ability to adjust the bass output on the fly with its left & right gain adjustment knobs which will be convenient.
    Would like to hear your comments and thoughts .... Cheers!
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    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    I use 2 Class D Audio CDA-258 bridged to drive my 2 JBL2235

    They sound really good.
    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030) 305P MkII

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    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    I use 2 Class D Audio CDA-258 bridged to drive my 2 JBL2235

    They sound really good.
    Nice .. You find that they control the cone tightly? I don't even know the damping factor on these amps nor if I should really be concerned on that spec.
    I never owned an electronic amp and looking forward to its arrival later this week and implementing it in to my systems lower end.

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    Using class H to drive my 2235h in 4343b with QSC GX 5. It works excellently. Tight and punchy and it doesn't even break a sweat. Just to try, I hooked up all four 2235h (two in 4430 and two in 4343B) for 4 Ohm to each channel x'ed over @ 300 Hz, and it had no issues what so ever.

    For my two subwoofers I use a good but cheap clone of LabGruppens FP14000 and that's class D. It's also amazing, so I can't imagine you're going to be disappointed with class D. No problems digging below 20 Hz and no loss of control.

    Most subwoofers use class D amplification too.

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    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    Using class H to drive my 2235h in 4343b with QSC GX 5. It works excellently. Tight and punchy and it doesn't even break a sweat. Just to try, I hooked up all four 2235h (two in 4430 and two in 4343B) for 4 Ohm to each channel x'ed over @ 300 Hz, and it had no issues what so ever.

    For my two subwoofers I use a good but cheap clone of LabGruppens FP14000 and that's class D. It's also amazing, so I can't imagine you're going to be disappointed with class D. No problems digging below 20 Hz and no loss of control.

    Most subwoofers use class D amplification too.
    What subs are you running?
    I just wish I could keep to the original amp/xover on the Bass Energizers but there is really no headroom left to them, I have each sub set @ 80% and not sure if I changed out the caps & somehow hot rod it if it would be sufficient. On some formats/recordings it is near perfect but I find on 75% of what I have been experiencing it cant quite keep up and I am always looking to adjust the bass according to the various programs bass mix aka cable tv programs, usb hi rez, cds, blu-ray music/movies.

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    I'm running two DIY subs with TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" drivers. They are sealed and about 150L each.

    English is not my native tongue. By not able to keep up, do you mean in SPL? You raise the volume but have too little output, and then you're left with little output even when you have it set at 80 %?

    How about your gain structure? How is the input sensitivity the amps of your energizers compared to the source you're using? If input sensitivity on the amp is high when and the output voltage of your preamp is low, then you only get decent output when the material being played back is mastered with the bass at high levels.

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    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    I'm running two DIY subs with TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" drivers. They are sealed and about 150L each.

    English is not my native tongue. By not able to keep up, do you mean in SPL? You raise the volume but have too little output, and then you're left with little output even when you have it set at 80 %?

    How about your gain structure? How is the input sensitivity the amps of your energizers compared to the source you're using? If input sensitivity on the amp is high when and the output voltage of your preamp is low, then you only get decent output when the material being played back is mastered with the bass at high levels.
    Always wanted to try one of those TC 18s integrated in my current system, maybe crossed over around 30 hz just to pick up where the Bass Energizers start to drop off.
    What size sealed box are you using?
    Are you using any type of bass equalization?
    As far as my systems gain structure goes... I am not too sure how it is matching up. I am running an Oppo 105D and at this time I have the Bass Energizers wired thru their original crossover/amp section where it takes from the source its left & right signals and sums from 70hz down to the bass energizer and passes the rest to the towers.
    When I receive the Class D Audio SDS-470 this week I will be comparing it to my Classe CA 2200 which is powering the triple stacked JBL L212s ... curious on how this little electronic amp compares in regards to soundstage, imaging & dynamics in my system & room.
    Im thinking it will be a excellent match however for running the 4 bass energizers which is the reason I did purchase it. ($500 via Ebay)
    Look forward to hearing back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Texeira View Post
    Always wanted to try one of those TC 18s integrated in my current system, maybe crossed over around 30 hz just to pick up where the Bass Energizers start to drop off.
    What size sealed box are you using?
    Are you using any type of bass equalization?
    As far as my systems gain structure goes... I am not too sure how it is matching up. I am running an Oppo 105D and at this time I have the Bass Energizers wired thru their original crossover/amp section where it takes from the source its left & right signals and sums from 70hz down to the bass energizer and passes the rest to the towers.
    When I receive the Class D Audio SDS-470 this week I will be comparing it to my Classe CA 2200 which is powering the triple stacked JBL L212s ... curious on how this little electronic amp compares in regards to soundstage, imaging & dynamics in my system & room.
    Im thinking it will be a excellent match however for running the 4 bass energizers which is the reason I did purchase it. ($500 via Ebay)
    Look forward to hearing back
    The LMS Ultra 5400 can be x'ed over much higher than that and they've got low distortion and great power handling capacity. They are 150-155 liters or 5.5ft3 each, and I use miniDSP 4x10 HD for xover and bass managment, haha. I think I told you in another thread when you asked me about Emotiva XPR-1. I do xover @ 30, 60, 120 and 200 Hz. I'm using different settings (you can have up to four with miniDSP). I think 60 Hz is awesome, but if you really want them to be physical, 175-200 Hz will kick your chest in real hard.

    Was contemplating the Class D Audio SDS-470 a while back for my 4430 actually. Let me know how they work out for you.

    I'd be careful with how you wire things up, you might blow your amp if you're not careful keeping the impedance of the system up. Remember that there's a difference between actual and nominal impedance. Even if your system has a nominal impedance of 4 Ohms, it can drop below that as the impedance changes with frequency.

    Classé CA-2200 has an input sensitivity of 1.4Vrms. What preamp are you using?

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    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    The LMS Ultra 5400 can be x'ed over much higher than that and they've got low distortion and great power handling capacity. They are 150-155 liters or 5.5ft3 each, and I use miniDSP 4x10 HD for xover and bass managment, haha. I think I told you in another thread when you asked me about Emotiva XPR-1. I do xover @ 30, 60, 120 and 200 Hz. I'm using different settings (you can have up to four with miniDSP). I think 60 Hz is awesome, but if you really want them to be physical, 175-200 Hz will kick your chest in real hard.

    Was contemplating the Class D Audio SDS-470 a while back for my 4430 actually. Let me know how they work out for you.

    I'd be careful with how you wire things up, you might blow your amp if you're not careful keeping the impedance of the system up. Remember that there's a difference between actual and nominal impedance. Even if your system has a nominal impedance of 4 Ohms, it can drop below that as the impedance changes with frequency.

    Classé CA-2200 has an input sensitivity of 1.4Vrms. What preamp are you using?
    Oh ok .. yes.. Sweet! .. ok .. Im a nice guy but not too brite.. I was goin to ask you to upload some pix but I see them in the other thread. I heard good things bout Emotiva ..
    So I ask myself, why not utilize a class D amp for the sub frequencies, saving room, heat, weight & not to mention money saved?
    Any down side to class D amplification in regards to driving subwoofers?
    Thank you for the heads up on blowing up my amp ... I was hesitant at first and figured worse case scenario the amp would do its job and go in protection mode. Keeping in mind that its duties are from frequencies of 70hz & up which takes a load off I am sure.
    I honestly have no idea of the actual load that the amp is seeing .. actual nor nominally wise.
    Last week during the ABC American Music Festival broadcast in Nashville, I had the courage to push my system and ran it for 2 hours with my Oppo volume @ 65%. I did not take out my spl meter but I am sure I was getting peaks in the 90 range or more. The Classe did not go in protection mode and was only moderately warm. This concerts broadcast was surprisingly super clean and was the best my system ever sounded with a hd cable signal, it was the closest to live sound.
    I need to look more in to the miniDSP bass management capabilities.

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    I'm using class D amplification for the subs for the exact same reasons you are. Personally, I don't think there are any downsides. Even high end subwoofers use class D amplification.

    Would probably look into bypassing the passive components of the energizers and use something like miniDSP to do the crossover, but when you start to dabble with DSP you need to learn about things such as gain structure and the limits of EQ to get the most out of (and not damaging) your system. The flexibility of miniDSP gives room for mistakes which can be expensive, such as overpowering the woofers with too much EQ. At the same time their devices are user friendly.

    With miniDSP 4x10 HD (or similar) you will also be able to time align your system properly, that should yield good results.

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    Member Scott Texeira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    I'm using class D amplification for the subs for the exact same reasons you are. Personally, I don't think there are any downsides. Even high end subwoofers use class D amplification.

    Would probably look into bypassing the passive components of the energizers and use something like miniDSP to do the crossover, but when you start to dabble with DSP you need to learn about things such as gain structure and the limits of EQ to get the most out of (and not damaging) your system. The flexibility of miniDSP gives room for mistakes which can be expensive, such as overpowering the woofers with too much EQ. At the same time their devices are user friendly.

    With miniDSP 4x10 HD (or similar) you will also be able to time align your system properly, that should yield good results.
    Yes, I am going to be bypassing the amp/crossover section on the Bass energizers and utilizing the Oppos xover & lfe out.

    I am lookn forward to equalizing my bass and time aligning the stacked towers. Also looking in to angling the bottom & top speakers for better imaging focus.

    Thank you for the words of caution, I am always careful and understand that the Bass energizers definitely have their limits .. if I can smooth out my bass response in my room and get descent usable bass down to 25hz or so I would be a happy camper.

    I do know myself however and if I am missing that last lower 1/2 octave you so know that it will eventually have to be taken care of!!

    Bring on one of those big 18s! cross her over to play from 30hz down sounds about right for the Bass energizers

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    This sounds like a very good plan.

    If you get one of those 18's you're probably going to want two, and after that you'll end up like me lusting for four, lol. The proof is in your current system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DingDing View Post
    This sounds like a very good plan.

    If you get one of those 18's you're probably going to want two, and after that you'll end up like me lusting for four, lol. The proof is in your current system.
    I hear ya on that! Just only if I can find the space to fit one or two.

    What frequency do you have yours running at?
    Can you add some pix of your system .. I cant find them .. ? I know you recently acquired a pair of JBLs with a possible upgrade in the crossover.. how is that coming along?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Texeira View Post
    I hear ya on that! Just only if I can find the space to fit one or two.

    What frequency do you have yours running at?
    Can you add some pix of your system .. I cant find them .. ? I know you recently acquired a pair of JBLs with a possible upgrade in the crossover.. how is that coming along?
    Scott, there's always room, just replace some furniture, who needs that anyways?

    Have a look at these pictures: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post364925

    Have them x'ed over at various frequencies, told you a little bit about it in this post

    Have you been snooping in my older threads? Bad boy!! Yes, the 4343B I've got and love was from a very well known member here named Rolf who unfortunately died in an accident last year. He bought the speakers and later the charge coupled xover networks from Guido which is very skilled at building crossover networks. The speakers sound fantastic and I will own them for the rest of my life, as they are my first true speaker-love.

    The cc-network in them require active amping, so I would love to also build the rest of the xover so I can run them in full passive mode to try out Emotiva XPR-1 in full range, but I don't yet have the skills for that and buying the xovers is not cheap when you calculate in import taxes and duties etc.

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