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Thread: Turntables , Vinyl , Welcome back!

  1. #376
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Chavez View Post
    major chunk people like chad kassem

    middle aged men buying mega bucks box sets

    expensive reissues

    Beatles doing the 147th reissue remaster remix

    and yeah some people my age and younger

    and don't forget the hipsters - it's all good
    Michael Chavez .... I've read your posts this last month, they seem generally negative & sarcastic , very reminiscent of a user from not long ago who kept changing names as he was banned twice.

    More constructive posts would be welcomed.
    It's easier to try than to prove it can't be done

  2. #377
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    My Kenwood TT, 40 years old with FR 12 arm and MC 44 cartridge.

    I few weeks ago I pulled it out for a clean and noticed the arm mounting and a few other things were loose.
    The 12 mm particle board panel underneath rattles when tapped!
    That said when I purchased it I compared the vibration isolation to an LP 12 and I felt it was superior when it came to feedback.
    The cartridge also needs re tipping but on enquiry it was going to be expensive and perhaps better to buy a new cartridge.

    I recently bought a new Rega Planar 3 for the family room system and was surprised how good it sounded. The Kenwood served me well so I started looking for a replacement TT and got some advice. There are some great Micro Seiki decks (SH) but the shipping a quite expensive. I also looked at a Clearaudio TT and the new Technics models. One thing lead to another and I started looking at belt drive tables with high mass platters.

    In the end I opted for a VPI Prime with the stock 3D arm and Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge. No it wasn't cheap but I got a great deal from the importer. Its going to last another 40 years. The build is impressive as is the sound with only a few hours on it. I will post a pic when I have it properly set up.

    https://www.vpiindustries.com/prime
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  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    My Kenwood TT, 40 years old with FR 12 arm and MC 44 cartridge.

    I few weeks ago I pulled it out for a clean and noticed the arm mounting and a few other things were loose.
    The 12 mm particle board panel underneath rattles when tapped!
    That said when I purchased it I compared the vibration isolation to an LP 12 and I felt it was superior when it came to feedback.
    The cartridge also needs re tipping but on enquiry it was going to be expensive and perhaps better to buy a new cartridge.

    I recently bought a new Rega Planar 3 for the family room system and was surprised how good it sounded. The Kenwood served me well so I started looking for a replacement TT and got some advice. There are some great Micro Seiki decks (SH) but the shipping a quite expensive. I also looked at a Clearaudio TT and the new Technics models. One thing lead to another and I started looking at belt drive tables with high mass platters.

    In the end I opted for a VPI Prime with the stock 3D arm and Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge. No it wasn't cheap but I got a great deal from the importer. Its going to last another 40 years. The build is impressive as is the sound with only a few hours on it. I will post a pic when I have it properly set up.

    https://www.vpiindustries.com/prime
    smart move
    the Weisfelds are super people to deal with and their products are beautiful
    sound beautiful too
    you call VPI and someone picks up the phone
    that's some table you purchased by the way, very nice
    Michael

  4. #379
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    I am still not happy (to put it mildly) that my mom gave away her Thorens TD124 w/ SME 3009 arm. GAVE AWAY!

  5. #380
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Chavez View Post
    smart move
    the Weisfelds are super people to deal with and their products are beautiful
    sound beautiful too
    you call VPI and someone picks up the phone
    that's some table you purchased by the way, very nice
    Michael
    Hi Michael,

    Yes Matt was quite helpful in answering some questions.

    Selecting the cartridge was a challenge because I was un familiar with what was what and Matt was quite helpful in answering some questions. But here is the scoop. Frank Weisfeld has (or did have) the JBL Project Everest DD67000 system. Given Frank likes the Purple Heart I figured was a good bet. I can't wait to I get it installed on the main rig.

    The Management was cool about it. When I was cleaning and pulling apart the Kenwood I said this thing is worn and everything is loose. I then said the diamond was missing out of the cantilever on the cartridge. She said I was waiting for you to say that! So I took her to California for some time in Napa Valley and shopping in SF at Union Square and in Palm Springs. I think we both did okay.

    Much earlier on my first TT was a JH with the JH Formula 4 arm. The Formula 4 was a low mass silicon damped unipivot. The arm was not particularly well built but it worked even with a Stanton 681EEE. The whole thing cost AUD$139 back in the late 70's so I was not complaining.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi Michael,

    Yes Matt was quite helpful in answering some questions.

    Selecting the cartridge was a challenge because I was un familiar with what was what and Matt was quite helpful in answering some questions. But here is the scoop. Frank Weisfeld has (or did have) the JBL Project Everest DD67000 system. Given Frank likes the Purple Heart I figured was a good bet. I can't wait to I get it installed on the main rig.

    The Management was cool about it. When I was cleaning and pulling apart the Kenwood I said this thing is worn and everything is loose. I then said the diamond was missing out of the cantilever on the cartridge. She said I was waiting for you to say that! So I took her to California for some time in Napa Valley and shopping in SF at Union Square and in Palm Springs. I think we both did okay.

    Much earlier on my first TT was a JH with the JH Formula 4 arm. The Formula 4 was a low mass silicon damped unipivot. The arm was not particularly well built but it worked even with a Stanton 681EEE. The whole thing cost AUD$139 back in the late 70's so I was not complaining.
    good news and positive remarks for a change
    refreshing
    I am excited for you
    Michael

  7. #382
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Seawolf,

    Sorry for the delay in coming back on this, more urgent things to attend...

    Forgot to mention the following in post # 375.

    First, Sony's Mini Disc format wasn't mentioned in the newspaper article re the BPI list of music media sales, so the case for this one doesn't look too good, at this time...

    Second, received before X-Mas a catalog from a local music retailer. Among others there's a page of vinyl reissues from known artists of the past along with retail prices, here's some examples: Creedence Clearwater Revival, hits $30; Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon $33, Jimi Hendrix, Experience $30; Led Zeppelin $37; AC/DC, Back in Black $27; David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust $33; The Doors $30; Fleetwood Mac, hits $27. Average $30.+

    There's also a couple of pages of CDs most of the time going for $17, some plus or less a little $.

    No indication given as to these vinyls remastered or not, or been worked on, nor if better quality pressings than previous ones. Would have to go in-store to check some jackets to see if there's mention of new tech magic included in those prices.

    One thing is sure, the original studio time and recording costs have been amortized long ago. However, with the vinyl prices shown above, plus 15% taxes, I don't really see how the younger generation starting in audio or having limited $$, and attracted by vinyls, can reasonably establish something that might look like an LP record library...

    Vinyl prices are about double those of CDs so the economics here point in favor of CD. For vinyls, purchasing used ones becomes almost a must if a young fellow or one with limited budget doesn't want to lose his shirt rapidly, considering its 3 new albums for over $100 when all in... Long life to those who trade in used LP records at more reasonable prices!

    Third part re cassette "revival"coming soon. Regards,

    Richard

  8. #383
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi Seawolf, Average $30.+. Long life to those who trade in used LP records at more reasonable prices!

    Richard
    If I had to pay those prices, TT's would NOT be a thing for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    It's funny, many times when i go to record shows or vintage record stores, I often get approached by younger guys (<30) who want to get into LP playback , but don't know how to get started.
    My son, who got started out with just some of my extras .... now sells on the web, and has quite a following .. tho his prices seem high to me.

    https://www.discogs.com/seller/Bette...sement/profile

    ships all over the world ... honest grader ...100% positive FB.
    It's easier to try than to prove it can't be done

  9. #384
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi seawolf,

    RE "If I had to pay those prices, TT's would NOT be a thing for me."

    Absolutely agree, and that's my point. How can one encourage people with limited budgets to dive in new LP records thing with prices such as $35 each with taxes. Its crazy. No wonder so many stick with streaming or MP3.

    I don't know what keeps new vinyl prices so high considering studio/recording costs were paid long ago. What's left to pay now is basically vinyl pressing, jacket printing and a royalty to artist (often small). Wondering if marketing based on an exclusivity, special product or limited series isn't behind fat margins...

    Smaller quantities than in the past may explain part of it (unit cost being higher with small production run), but up to those retail price levels??? Or their logic is simply Boomers will purchase those and they can pay through the nose for their nostalgia...

    RE "... tho his prices seem high to me"

    Used records being like the only way out, maybe his father can influence him a little in getting those prices somewhat down? Specially since I understand he gets a number of those records from you anyway, most probably at father pricing... Regards,

    Richard

  10. #385
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi seawolf,

    RE "If I had to pay those prices, TT's would NOT be a thing for me."

    Absolutely agree, and that's my point. How can one encourage people with limited budgets to dive in new LP records thing with prices such as $35 each with taxes. Its crazy. No wonder so many stick with streaming or MP3.
    One problem that I have with records, is that they are played back serially ... IF there is a stinker track that you can't stand, you generally have to put up with it, unless you jump up and manually skip ...that's why I like dubbing them to MD .. stinky track ? just delete it and continue ..

    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Or their logic is simply Boomers will purchase those and they can pay through the nose for their nostalgia...
    It may be that those getting in, just think they are normal prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    RE "... tho his prices seem high to me"

    Used records being like the only way out, maybe his father can influence him a little in getting those prices somewhat down? Specially since I understand he gets a number of those records from you anyway, most probably at father pricing... Regards,

    Richard
    and yet he gets so many feedbacks about how reasonable his prices are

    DISCLAIMER: when he got started, he priced TOO LOW and I had to push him to get to a level where his business made economic sense. Had to do the same for a friend when he started selling on eBay ... "A seller can always go down, but going up is near impossible" .
    It's easier to try than to prove it can't be done

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi seawolf,

    RE "If I had to pay those prices, TT's would NOT be a thing for me."

    Absolutely agree, and that's my point. How can one encourage people with limited budgets to dive in new LP records thing with prices such as $35 each with taxes. Its crazy. No wonder so many stick with streaming or MP3.

    I don't know what keeps new vinyl prices so high considering studio/recording costs were paid long ago. What's left to pay now is basically vinyl pressing, jacket printing and a royalty to artist (often small). Wondering if marketing based on an exclusivity, special product or limited series isn't behind fat margins...

    Smaller quantities than in the past may explain part of it (unit cost being higher with small production run), but up to those retail price levels??? Or their logic is simply Boomers will purchase those and they can pay through the nose for their nostalgia...

    RE "... tho his prices seem high to me"

    Used records being like the only way out, maybe his father can influence him a little in getting those prices somewhat down? Specially since I understand he gets a number of those records from you anyway, most probably at father pricing... Regards,

    Richard
    premium, single disc, 150-180 gram Lp pressings like those from RTI, Classic or Acoustic Sounds have been 30 to 40 dollars since the late 1990s
    more for 45rpm, single sided and deep groove
    30 bucks for a top drawer pressing is a bargain
    (and, the going rate for close to 25 years now)
    most major label plain vanilla stuff is under 20

  12. #387
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    The prices for new vinyl here vary from $30 to $80 for a premium half speed mobile fidelity mastered disk.

    I also have a small collection of pure analogue vinyl from a supplier in Berlin (no digital only analogue in the process) and a number of direct to disk Sheffield Lab pressings.

    Back in the late 70’s a regular vinyl album was about $5.95. Forty years on with CPI and inflation l think $30.00 is reasonable particularly if you favour the vinyl sound which on premium TT /cartridge outclasses digital playback in listening pleasure in my opinion. I have CD and access to Tidal MQA streaming. With quality a vinyl rig set up right the sound has many appealing qualities. It has to be experienced to be believed but that is Audio. On my fourth and final TT l have buy a new record weekly.

    My understanding is local hifi shops struggle to sell a TT to the millennial. But l would point out the Millennial has a high discretionary disposal income for the jbl lifestyle products which aren’t cheap. They just aren’t that interested. But they are into quality headfi and may own several expensive sets of headphones and head amps/dacs costing well over $2000.00.

  13. #388
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    THE RETURN OF THE CASSETTE...

    Hi seawolf,

    The most surprising data from the BPI numbers shown in post # 375 are, in my view, the constant increase of cassette sales for 7 years! I thought the cassette was dead and buried 10 ft. deep decades ago, never to reappear.

    Its come back, though still marginal, seems to indicate along with the LP record, the resurgence of some older technologies deemed to have been abandoned forever. Maybe its perceived as being cool now to have some of those once called "museum type" things or those who own them just won't let them go. Though some people say they prefer the sound of LP records over that of CD, said to be too "dry". Can't say I'm unhappy with LP record sound either, except for record noise on some, as mine purchased mostly during 70's-80's.

    The puzzling question for tapes is where do they get cassettes from? New old stock?? With 88K units sold just in Britain that must be more than just old stock. Then, who makes cassettes nowadays? Haven't heard about any of the former manufacturers like Sony, TDK, Maxell, etc. still making them. Must be a source somewhere.

    Years ago many basement/garage bands would send their demo tape to record companies on cassette in trying to create interest and land a recording contract, some home studio recordings also. Their sound had to be acceptable since a piece of crap would probably not get a reply nor the record deal sought...

    Dolby's last cassette improvements re noise reduction and signal/noise ratio were nice but not a big commercial success simply because they first reached the market late 1990 when the CD format was already well established.

    Dolby has an interesting technical paper called "Dolby B, C and S Noise Reduction Systems: Making Cassettes Sound Better", with "S" coverage starting P. 12-13. They had been working on the Pro Spectral Recording (SR) process for a while and the "S" was derived from that. One practical aspect of "S" is its markedly improved compatibility with prior B version vs Dolby C which was often a pain in that regard.

    Another interesting point is that Dolby had new performance requirements cassette decks had to meet in order to be granted an "S" licence, and Dolby tested prototype samples of all decks, before product manufacturing, to make sure their specs were met. Naturally, with the higher performance standards from these decks, this implies "S" noise reduction was not destined to lower cost models, decks having it are generally more expensive ones, but provide nicer results for sure.

    The older Sony Dolby C deck I had got the boot at one point and I kept the TEAC V-2020S Dolby S deck which cost me $500. + tax back in May 1994. Kept a box with an assortment of 25 new good cassettes for the TEAC, convinced years ago this obsolete media would never be seen again. Seems I was wrong... (see pics).

    Could your searches for good used equipment deals have to include some cassette decks in the future?

    Who knows, with the cassette still hanging on in the market and sales increasing maybe there's a cassette deck in some people's future... Regards,

    Richard

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  14. #389
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    THE RETURN OF THE CASSETTE...

    Hi seawolf,
    I kept the TEAC V-2020S Dolby S deck which cost me $500. + tax back in May 1994. Kept a box with an assortment of 25 new good cassettes for the TEAC, convinced years ago this obsolete media would never be seen again. Seems I was wrong... (see pics).

    Could your searches for good used equipment deals have to include some cassette decks in the future?

    Who knows, with the cassette still hanging on in the market and sales increasing maybe there's a cassette deck in some people's future... Regards,
    Richard
    cassettes ???

    I was heavy into that format for many years , progressed through many different decks (also R2R and even recording audio to VHS) ....when I discovered MD, the story changed.
    I have a very heavy TEAC V-???? deck in the gear stack somewhere, also a Sony "S" deck. Sold my Nak 700 just a couple of months ago.

    Minidisk just outshines them all.

    I remember back about 1999 or so ,,,we were so impressed that someone had modified a laptop to be permanently mounted in the guys car glovebox ..so he had 20gb of MP3's available when on the road.
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  15. #390
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post

    Minidisk just outshines them all.
    Why go to all that trouble when there is Spotify?

    ...and at the high end there is Tidal streaming Hi-Rez files.

    Back on the topic of vinyl, in 1980 standard non-audiophile records were about $8. With inflation, that is about $25 today, so even though they are now a niche product, they are still about the same price.


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