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Thread: Turntables , Vinyl , Welcome back!

  1. #1
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Turntables , Vinyl , Welcome back!

    same arm (but a 3009/3) , you are paying $900 extra to go with the Linn over a Rega Planar 3 ?

    http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4529064689.html
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  2. #2
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    same arm (but a 3009/3) , you are paying $900 extra to go with the Linn over a Rega Planar 3 ?

    http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4529064689.html
    And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
    Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
    Me no a fan !!

  3. #3
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    I've never been able to make my Denon DP-60L skip, nor the double sprung Pioneer PL-530 , and I've really tried.

    Just not getting the obsession with the Linn/SME . Some jazz fan in japan recommends it , there are just so many variables in this equation (gear, room, source, etc.). I'll bet that combo can be made to sound terrible in the wrong environment.

    "Knowing" Mac , I'd be inclined to further investigate that Oracle Alexandria.

    here's another interesting TT, tho not a Linn

    http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4535170444.html

    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  5. #5
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Some jazz fan in japan recommends it.
    Yea, that's why I've been looking for it as an avid jazz listener myself for very long.
    Lots of serious jazz fans there, including owner of Japan's most famous jazz club Basie, love this combo.
    As it's very hard to find one, though, I'm turning to Linn/Ittok combo...

  6. #6
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


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    Beautiful TT! I see one in nice condition on ebay. Shipping is very expensive..

  7. #7
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
    Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
    Me no a fan !!
    Hi Mac,

    Thanks a lot for your insight on Linn turntables.
    I think many in this Forum including me have come to learn useful things from you through this thread.
    If you look at the product history of Linn, there were numerous upgrades and changes for the past 50 years.
    I see Linn serial numbers in particular are directly related to upgrades and changes.
    So, it's hard to find which is better than which, unless one is a specialist like you or very knowledgeable.
    For those looking for a Linn turntable, would you recommend some useful points when they buy one?
    Personally, I'm very interested in which serial number zone, say 70,000 to 80,000, you think is the best possible choice, given all the upgrades and changes.

  8. #8
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Open turntable discussion

    Hi all , this is a split from the thread in the general marketplace. I've had the Boss open up this as a separate thread to allow a more open and full discussion of turntables , vinyl and so on.

    We have been talking about variants of Linn LP12 , I'll do a summary of that soon but feel free to pitch in impressions of others as you see fit.

    Later on I have a wee project in mind that might fly , or not depending on the interest from the community.

  9. #9
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Hi all , this is a split from the thread in the general marketplace. I've had the Boss open up this as a separate thread to allow a more open and full discussion of turntables , vinyl and so on.

    We have been talking about variants of Linn LP12 , I'll do a summary of that soon but feel free to pitch in impressions of others as you see fit.

    Later on I have a wee project in mind that might fly , or not depending on the interest from the community.
    I'm delighted to find this new exciting thread on turntables.
    Personally I've used Linn with BasikPlus, Thorens TD160, and Technics SL-D2.
    And these are some of the questions that I have had cor long:

    1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
    2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
    3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
    4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
    5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
    6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
    If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
    7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?

    Any thoughts on these points, Mac?

  10. #10
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post

    1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
    2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
    1. sometimes, NOT always. many many threads on this topic available.
    2, depends on a lot of factors ..Thorens legendary ? Have gone through 3 or 4, no keepers, some newish ones are made in Poland (after '93).

    You can find a thousand different answers to these questions. Mac is by far the most knowledgeable on this forum, and I take his advice often, but have disagreed and been correct very occasionally. (but again, it's all about perceptions)

    as for using certain carts with certain arms, my TT has solved this by supplying 2 interchangeable arms, straight & "S"

    >>The DP-60L has a head shell integrated into the arm tube, with its connector portion located at the base of the tube. The tube is a replaceable S-shaped arm tube with standard 4P connector.
    By replacing the low mass arm tube with the S-shaped tube, virtually all head shells or integrated cartridges can be utilised.
    By having the ability to use the widest selection of cartridges, your audio enjoyment will be significantly broadened.


    If you are going to spend a lot on a TT, do your homework , find out all you can in advance. These are moving mechanical devices and each wears out in particular areas.

    As for a Japanese jazz club owner with a TT that he likes, so you must get one:
    There are many fine TT's/cartridges made in Japan that may be superior.
    I've traveled a lot in Asia and found it's very stylish to have US/Euro gear, especially if you are publicly showing it off. And conversely, not so "in" to have domestic equipment. Where is JBL's biggest customers for their high end products ?

    There are lots of good forums on the web. Try http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml


    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300.
    Ok, I'm impressed. One of my all time favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.
    Those loudspeakers aren't bad either!

  12. #12
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Quickly :

    1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
    Generally yes if the front end is mid fi or better. CD was such a compromise when digital sound was in it's infancy , it has never moved on since that day ( 1983 ) despite there being a huge increase in data handling available to designers.

    2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
    Not necessarily. Nowt wrong with VPI and Technics have made some classics

    3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
    Nope

    4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
    Generally yes if adjusted correctly

    5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
    IMO MC but not always.

    6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
    Yes , a combination of electronic noise , hum and hiss , plus any mechanical input from the deck plus suface noise from the disc. Depends how you want to quantify it.

    If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
    SME , Teres etc Practically no mechanical noise at all. The rest is down to the arm and cartridge.

    7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?
    Price probably

  13. #13
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Ok, I'm impressed. One of my all time favorites.Those loudspeakers aren't bad either!
    Indeed , that Luxman and other Micro Seiki decks addressed many of the desirable design points very well indeed. The vac system is very effective and there is a significant isolation system built in too.
    Lovely construction.

    They were very pricey in the UK

  14. #14
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Quickly :

    1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
    Generally yes if the front end is mid fi or better. CD was such a compromise when digital sound was in it's infancy , it has never moved on since that day ( 1983 ) despite there being a huge increase in data handling available to designers.

    2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
    Not necessarily. Nowt wrong with VPI and Technics have made some classics

    3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
    Nope

    4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
    Generally yes if adjusted correctly

    5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
    IMO MC but not always.

    6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
    Yes , a combination of electronic noise , hum and hiss , plus any mechanical input from the deck plus suface noise from the disc. Depends how you want to quantify it.

    If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
    SME , Teres etc Practically no mechanical noise at all. The rest is down to the arm and cartridge.

    7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?
    Price probably
    Thanks for your clear-cut answers! Re #7, I see price tags for some high-end TTs well over tens of thousands dollars, also some cartridges well over several thousands dollars. As I've never listened to them in person, I have no way of comparing them with legendary but affordable TT such as Linn Sondek LP12 and Thorens TD124. What do you think is the main difference between such expensive TTs and other brands, except for the production material?

  15. #15
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post

    As for a Japanese jazz club owner with a TT that he likes, so you must get one:
    There are many fine TT's/cartridges made in Japan that may be superior.
    I've traveled a lot in Asia and found it's very stylish to have US/Euro gear, especially if you are publicly showing it off. And conversely, not so "in" to have domestic equipment. Where is JBL's biggest customers for their high end products ?

    There are lots of good forums on the web. Try http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml


    Thanks. Yea, I'm trying very hard to get one, but it looks like an almost impossible job.
    I was almost done by a scammer after placing an ad for Linn with SME3009 on Canuck the other day.
    Without the timely intervention of macaroonie, our forum member here, I would have lost $1,500 for his scam item!
    I see some Linn ads out still there, but stayed away from them since then.

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